Image Management and Categorizing

[CatherineA]

I am overdue for trying to implement some categorizing structure on my photos. At the moment, they are all just dumped in by date. With Lightroom I can create Collections of photos and put them in Collection Sets and that seems a good approach.

I drafted ideas for Collections Sets and their respective Collections. Everything was great until I went to actually sort my photos. So many photos could quite reasonably be in a number of Collection Sets and different Collections. If, at a later date, I am thinking of "Travel" then it be useful to find a photo in that Collection Set. But if my family or dog is in the photo, and my thinking is that I want a photo of one of my sons or husband or the dog, well then I would go to each of their Collections, which might be under a different Collection Set, such as "Family." I want a separate Collection Set for "Landscape" and that would mean that had this particular photo been of a landscape and taken while traveling, then it would be in three Collection Sets and loads of different Collections. I know that it is easy to put links to multiple locations but what a time-consuming and tedious process all this starts to seem.

So, before I launch down this path, I wondered how others managed all this cross-referencing. Perhaps I am not at a good starting point with this approach and it would be great to find that out now. Thank you

[DanK]

I would use keywords rather than collections. You can add numerous keywords to any image in the library module, and you can select on them. E.g., you could use your dog's name. Just make sure that before you select, you place the pointer in the left-hand panel far enough up your hierarchy that you are including all the photos you want. I organize all of my photos in a given catalog in subfolders under one top-level folder. Searching the catalog is extremely fast, so I just click on the top-level folder before searching on keywords.

This is also a good way to deal with duplicate file names, if you have any. Search on the file name, find the image you want, right click, and chose 'open image in folder' or whatever that choice is.

My use of LR's cataloging is very rudimentary, but I only use collections as temporary devices--e.g., when assembling photos for a specific purpose. I use keywords otherwise.

Again, my use isn't sophisticated, so others may have better ideas.

[William W]

I use date and then topic.
Topic can be: a person; a group of persons; an event; or a destination or a combination.
For me that is simple because I remember events and names and places easily and I can relate those keywords to the details of what I shot. This was how we filed the negs. for our studios.

e.g.

2018.01.26 Aus. Day Sydney Harbour
2018.01.27 to 2018.02.04 Swimming NSW Open
2018.02.03 Street Portraits Homebush

WW

[CatherineA]

Thank you, Dan. Keywords would be fast and avoid the unnecessary step of deciding which category or sub-category would be the most relevant. I could add on any keyword that I think would be useful when trying to find photos at some later date.

[CatherineA]

Thank Bill. Does that mean that each shoot has a separate folder? There are some locations that I go back to often and I might shoot the buildings sometimes or birds another or some other subject. Perhaps I could use a system like yours on import and add keywords to speed up my search when looking for a particular subject.

[Manfred M]

Catherine - my approach is very similar to Bill's, but with a bit of a twist. I set up a new folder by event, but have separate subfolders by date. I will often consolidate both into a subfolder. As an example; I have been to India three times, so I have subfolders for each of the trips and another set of subfolders by date.

I simply cannot be bothered with keywording and I rarely have trouble finding an image quickly. I don't bother with the Lightroom cataloging system either. I have a philosophical issue with huge databases with everything stored in them. I have a distributed storage approach where I back up to multiple external networked RAID drives.

[CatherineA]

Manfred, so you have a cataloguing system that is not dependent on Lightroom at all? Is that independence an important factor for you? What about your edits, aren't some of them tied to Adobe anyway?

[Manfred M]

Manfred, so you have a cataloguing system that is not dependent on Lightroom at all? Is that independence an important factor for you? What about your edits, aren't some of them tied to Adobe anyway?

I've been using Adobe products since around 2003, so well before Lightroom existed (I tested the original Lightroom Beta). This means I developed my own way of managing content that relies purely on the computer's file structure management system. It's a bit newer than Bill's negative storage system, but it basically quite similar.

While I do use Lightroom, I use it for the job I am running. Different job, different catalogue.

[William W]

. . . Does that mean that each shoot has a separate folder? There are some locations that I go back to often and I might shoot the buildings sometimes or birds another or some other subject. . . .

Yes.
And it also means that within 'one shoot' I will separate folders by Topic (i.e. 'Subject).
Therefore, some folders, on some days might have as few as five or six files.
Unlike Manfred I, do not place folders within other folders EXCEPT, in some a folders I have the Sub-folders: "raw"; "JPEG"; "PP". These are all the same images, separated by file type. the 'PP' Sub-folder is "Post Production", usually JPEG, sometimes TIFF.

E.g.

2004.01.26 Aus. Day Sydney Harbour
[ . . .]
2008.01.26 Aus. Day Sydney Harbour
[. . .]
2008.06.22 Luna Park
[. . . ]
2009.09.21 Luna Park
2009.09.21 Syd Opera House
2009.09.21 Syd Town Hall
2009.09.21 Syd Candid Street Portraiture

WW

[pschlute]

Hi Catherine. One thing I like about Collections in LR is the ability to create sub categories. So you could have "Holidays" with numerous places as individual sub categories. And even sub again if you visit a place for a second time. Clicking on "holidays" will bring up all your pictures in any sub category , or you can drill down to the specific visit you want to view.

Any picture can be in more than one collection.

I also use keywords as this can be a way of finding pictures that are not in any collection, or are indeed in a number of different ones. On the right hand side on LR is the keywording panel which makes it easy to add common keywords to your pictures. Selecting more than one picture enables you to add keywords to multiple pictures.

Do you use "stacking" in LR ? For example I will stack a jpeg on top of the DNG file. This means that when i browse my images I only see the jpeg (unless I unstack them). If you do use stacking, then be aware that the keywording or collection will only show the top photo (unless you specifically tag another version of it eg the DNG file).

[DanK]

Lightroom's use of collections is fairly complicated (because it is so flexible). A good introduction is here: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/he...llections.html. I don't personally use it anywhere nearly as much as I should.

The LR cataloging functions are of course only useful if that is what you use for a raw processor for most of your photos. Manfred uses several raw processors. I don't; I do mine entirely in LR. I find having a catalog very helpful, even though I make use of only a small proportion of its functions. I do also make use of the Windows file directory structure to keep track. However, even though I have far fewer photos than many people here, my primary working photo directory has over 100 subdirectories, and most of those have several subdirectories. E.g., my most recent directory of flower macros has over 30 subdirectories, each labeled by date and (hopefully) one of the flowers. It is very cumbersome to work across directories when there are so many. E.g., I am currently putting together a portfolio of images taken over a 9-year period. It was a real pain to find them using file names, but once I found them, I just added a keyword to each in Lightroom. Now I can pull up that entire portfolio in seconds, bringing them all into one grid view, and if I right-click on any one, Lightroom lets me to to that image in its folder, so I can look at all of the originals, virtual copies from softproofing, etc.

So, my advice is to play around with these functions. if you find that they don't help you, don't use them, but if you do find them useful, you will have a new set of tools.

[CatherineA]

Thank you Bill for explaining your system. Had I started your way, then I would have been in a good position now. I think that given the mess I am in, with an enormous pile of photos that I have to sort retroactively, I might use Lightroom’s keywords or collections. I think it would be a faster way to impose order at this stage.

[CatherineA]

Thank you Peter for your suggestions. Really glad you told me that about “stacking.” I don’t use it yet but it was part of my photo housekeeping plans.

What I am thinking of doing now, is to rely primarily on keywords and then if I want to create a particular collection, I could filter all photos using keywords to retrieve the targeted photos. Im going to think on it more today though because before I had been thinking of collections as the primary sorting tool. But then Venn diagrams came to my mind, with so many intersecting subsets, that I was getting bogged down. I need to keep it simple.

[DanK]

One further thought: I have always kept each shoot in its own folder, but it took me a long time to realize that I should do with Bill does, that is, add a description to the date. That helps a great deal, but it isn't quite sufficient for me because I often have the same location or subject. In addition, I may have more than one subject in a folder. For example, if I may have macros of three species of flower in one shoot, and one of those species may have appeared in several shoots over several years. Therefore, for my own use, having additional information beyond the description in the directory name is a big help. For others it may not be.

[CatherineA]

So, my advice is to play around with these functions. if you find that they don't help you, don't use them, but if you do find them useful, you will have a new set of tools.

Hi Dan, yes, I need to do that today. Since writing the reply to Peter moments ago I have done a 180 turn around and have thought of convincing reasons why I should in fact use Collection Sets as the primary sorting tool. I will have to sit down today and try some out. Thanks for replying.

[pschlute]

The LR cataloging functions are of course only useful if that is what you use for a raw processor for most of your photos.

Sorry Dan but I don't follow this.

I Use an external raw converter (Silkypix) and do any further editing in Photoshop. But Use LR to catalogue all my images.

My flow is :
1. Open LR. Plug SD card in the reader and use LR import function to place all DNG files in a new folder in date order.
2. Use external raw converter/Photoshop to produce jpegs and sometimes intermediate TIFFs.
3. Use LR import function to bring jpegs/TIFFs into the catalogue.
4. Delete any DNG files i did not process...this is done from within LR
5. Stack the jpeg/tiff/dng files by file number with the jpeg on top.
6. Create a new Collection (or use existing one) and add all jpegs to it.
7. Add any keywords to individual pictures or to all/some of them by selecting all or some of them.

This may sound a bit long winded but it isn't really.

You can use any variation of the above. For example there is no actual need to have your raw and tiff files in LR at all if you dont use it for editing. In that case just import jpegs.

[DanK]

Whatever works for you.

My workflow is simpler and involves fewer files. I store virtually no JPEGs. I have no use for them. I do my own printing, so I don’t need JPEGs for that. To post online, I use a Lightroom plug-in that generates a JPEG to my specifications, uploads it to Smugmug, and then deletes it from my disk. To post elsewhere, I link to Smugmug. So, I have raw and xml files if I can do all of my editing in LR. Otherwise, I have one or more TIFFs as well.

I have all of my files in LR, even if I have edited them elsewhere, as it gives me a single source for everything.

I usually have no need for collections, so I only use them when the combination of labeled directories and keywords is insufficient,

However, I’m just describing an option, not recommending it. I really do think that everyone should find whatever system works for them.




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[Rufus]

Health warning: this is a newbie’s approach to the topic.

I started using LR within the last year. I use it to manage my files, perform generic adjustments at import and to print from. I also use the export module to create files ready for posting here on CiC.

I decided to use keywords as the main means of finding an image. I then use collections for groups of images such as holidays, P52 2019, and club competition entries.

As I had not used LR previously I started by importing some recent images to test out my approach. Then I added any newly created files as and when I took more photos, and then worked backwards in time. The most important decision was how to name the folders/sub-folders. My only high level folder is “My Lightroom Photo Library“ and, as the name suggests, it contains all my imported images.

Below that single folder sit the subfolders which are in the format YYYY-MM-DD followed by a description. The date will be the first day of shooting. So, a long weekend in New York would all go into one subfolder named, say, “2019-02-14 New York”. If I went on holiday to several cities there would be separate folders for each city and the date would refer to the first day in that city and the descriptive part would probably be the name of the city.

An exception to this would be if on one of the days I took a large number of photos at one area/place/activity. In that case I may want to create a separate folder for that, but it will not be a sub-sub-folder.

The result is that all the folders appear in date order with a reminder of either where the location was or what was shot.

I retain the filename allocated by the camera and I never reset that on the camera.

I have a folder on my PC for my raw files so I can go back to them should the need arise.

My workflow is:

1. Copy
On my PC I will copy the RAW files from my camera/card to my PC, using the same sub-folder name as I intend to use in LR, then disconnect the camera/card.

2. Import RAW files
In Lightroom I will import from the PC folder using the same name for the destination sub-folder in LR (which as mentioned above is a sub-folder of “My Lightroom Photo Library”) and using my own preset suite of adjustments (e.g. lens correction, some sharpening etc). At the same time, I will add keywords that are likely to apply to all or most of the images.

If you wish to add the imports to a collection you can do this as part of the import process.

3. Backup and delete
The last thing I do is backup the files and delete the files from the card so it is ready for the next outing.

4. Edit
In Lightroom I will remove and delete from disk any hopeless images and process the images that I feel warrant it, be that in LR or PS and then stack the images in LR. The first edits will be to ensure the keywords are as I require. (BTW I never use plurals in keywords.)

5. Output
Print or export from the Lightroom modules.

[CatherineA]

Thank you very much for this David. My plan is to continue making a list of keywords this afternoon to get the process of sorting started. It will be easy to make collections from these. I think that means that I will be able to use the same sorting features of Lightroom that you use, except you took advantage of a more precise naming template for your photos.

I have the same high-level folder as you do. I have sub-folders by year, then by month, then by day. I thought I might later regret not adding on a descriptor but I charged on regardless. I don't think that it would be worth my while at this point to go back over the folder naming. I think the keywords and collections will let me do all the sorting that I need. The biggest drawback that I can see to what I've done is that it ties so much of my photo organization to Lightroom. But I think I'm pretty much tied to them now anyway.
My goal is to prepare some photos to print and I use Lightroom for editing. Probably only my printed photos will have any staying power for the family anyway.

Thanks again!

[Manfred M]

The biggest drawback that I can see to what I've done is that it ties so much of my photo organization to Lightroom. But I think I'm pretty much tied to them now anyway.

The best advice I can offer here Catherine is to use a combination of file structure that you overlay with what Lightroom lets you do. That way if you ever change your Digital Asset Management (DAM) software, you'll have a much easier time doing so. I know a number of people who have switched from Lightroom the Capture One (a lot of people who shoot Sony, for instance) and they end up with a bit of an awkward situation where they manage their digital assets with one tool and do their raw conversion and primary edits with another, unless they are willing to put in the effort to make a clean switch. That is where Bill and I have an advantage; we both manage our files through the operating system and that is likely a more robust approach in the long term.

As Dan mentioned, I regularly use three different raw convertors and that has certainly suggested to me that a more structured approach that does not use a DAM is much more flexible. DxO PhotoLab (the raw convertor I have been using a lot this week) does have some Lightroom links, but the process itself is a bit awkward. The relationship between Capture one and Lightroom is even more awkward as the two pieces of software do not work well together.