Frustrated with 7 III + 100 GM

[Antonio Correia]

I am a bit frustrated with the A7 III + 100 GM
Working with a GM lenses and limiting the ISO to 5.000 the results are not spectacular but rather modest instead.
Look at the quantity of noise in this image which I enlarged to 2:1. Isn't that huge ?
I accept that it is supposed to be my own problem because I don't photograph correctly.
I still have the Oly 5 Mk II with also great lenses. This Sony, with this lens is not better that the Oly with the 42.5 f/1.4. Perhaps it's only me. Am I being too demanding ???

[Shadowman]

Antonio,

I know it can be distracting for street photography and the final look may not be your style but have you considered adding flash? I ask because I often get flash warning (or suggestion to use) as I am shooting when light and/or chosen camera setting chosen does not equate with what my metering system considers an ideal exposure. I usually ignore the blinking flash indicator and if I have time will try to adjust my exposure as much as I am comfortable. Regarding the image posted, how much if any noise reduction did you apply?

[Antonio Correia]

Antonio,

I know it can be distracting for street photography and the final look may not be your style but have you considered adding flash? I ask because I often get flash warning (or suggestion to use) as I am shooting when light and/or chosen camera setting chosen does not equate with what my metering system considers an ideal exposure. I usually ignore the blinking flash indicator and if I have time will try to adjust my exposure as much as I am comfortable. Regarding the image posted, how much if any noise reduction did you apply?

John... thank you for commenting.
Flash warning ? Flash ? What for ? In the middle of the people with beautiful zenital light ?
I am supposed to apply noise adjustments in a Sony A7 III with expensive 100mmm GM ?
Bellow the original photo. See how the histogram is built ? What to say ? What is the excuse ?
My fault probably who bought the camera and lenses expecting something really, really excellent !

[Manfred M]

I am not surprised at what you are finding; not that Sony does not make excellent cameras.

You have switched camera systems and are going through a rather steep learning curve and are still not fully comfortable with your new camera body and lenses. This can be seen in many of your recent postings; those images are generally not up to the standards we are used to seeing from you. I seem to remember reading a quote from Peter Karbe (head of lens design for Leica) who suggested that it takes two years of use to understand how to get the best out of a lens.

I also suspect that you have fallen prey to the camera review sites that suggest that one camera or other is better from a technical standpoint (and camera makers to rely on this to sell more cameras). What most people forget to ask is "can this laboratory type data be applied to my real world image making?". The reality of the situation is that in most situations, it can't.

I find your pixel peeping is diverting your attention from doing what you do best; take strong images. Get back to your roots of making images that are technically strong, well framed and help the viewer connect with your image. No one cares what camera and lens you have actually used to create it.

Just to add one more consideration; you have gone from an Oly with a 2x crop factor to a FF Sony. You have to become comfortable with that whole aspect of how the camera takes pictures. I went through a similar learning experience 4 years ago when I bought a Panasonic mFT camera to travel with. I shot somewhere around 5000 images before my trip and some 20000 images while on the road; over a 9 month period. The images toward the end of my trip were definitely stronger than the ones at the beginnings and I had a reasonably good grasp on what the camera could and could not do. The same comment went for the two lenses I was using.

[dje]

Hi Antonio

You've given us the LR settings but you haven't indicated whether noise reduction has been applied. For ISO5000, even one of the lowest noise sensors around such as the full frame Sony will have some visible noise and require noise reduction. If no noise reduction has been applied, the noise levels evident look quite OK to me. Better than I would get with my crop Sony at 3200. Also you've bumped the shadows up quite a bit and this will raise the noise level.

Dave

[DanK]

First, noise is not a function of the lens. The lens isn't relevant.

ISO 5000 is quite high. It isn't surprising that you see noise at such a high level of magnification. If you can't shoot at a lower ISO, then see whether the noise is bothersome at the magnification at which you will display the image. If it is, then you have to use noise reduction, but I often find that if the display is small, noise is not relevant.

[Antonio Correia]

...I also suspect that you have fallen prey to the camera review sites that suggest that one camera or other is better from a technical standpoint (and camera makers to rely on this to sell more cameras)...

Yes Manfred. I have been naive ! I have been influenced by the publicity. I want to cry !
Still keeping my Oly after all...

[Antonio Correia]

Thank you Dave and Dan.
Perhaps I have magnified the photo too much and 100% is just enough...
My photos are just printed on A5 so...
I was so naive...

[royent]

Antonio
With ISO as high as that, I can't see how you can avoid noise
Roy

[mugge]

Why don't you try using Nik's define 2. When used correctly it will remove extreme noise using the manual mode facility.
Cheers Ole

[DanK]

If you are printing A5, you may not need any noise reduction at all. I would print one print on a paper that shows detail (glossy, semi-gloss, or luster, not matte) and see if the noise is noticeable. If not, you needn't bother. if you do need noise reduction, the noise reduction in the newer versions of lightroom, which you obviously use, are very powerful. I don't often need noise reduction, but when I do, that's what I use.

[Panama Hat & Camera]

I am a bit frustrated with the A7 III + 100 GM
Working with a GM lenses and limiting the ISO to 5.000 the results are not spectacular but rather modest instead.
Look at the quantity of noise in this image which I enlarged to 2:1. Isn't that huge ?
I accept that it is supposed to be my own problem because I don't photograph correctly.
I still have the Oly 5 Mk II with also great lenses. This Sony, with this lens is not better that the Oly with the 42.5 f/1.4. Perhaps it's only me. Am I being too demanding ???

Antonio,
I think Manfred is right. You are on a learning curve with your new camera and overestimated the performance of the Sony A7 III (ISO 5000 is a high value for doing pixel peeping).
For this particular photo I would use a larger aperture (f/4 or f/2.8) and reduce ISO.
Cheers,
Antonio.

[rpcrowe]

The many times that I upgraded my Canon DSLR cameras, the learning curve never seemed that terribly steep because I was basically shooting with the same type camera with just some incremental changes. However, when I purchased the Sony A6500 (later adding the A6400) the learning curve was quite steep since I was working with an entirely new system.

Doubtlessly, there may always be some disappointments when switching camera systems. My biggest disappointment was that my Canon lenses did not focus as well when adapted to the Sony (I used both the Sigma MC-11 and Metabones IV adapters) as I had hoped. However when I use native Sony glass, the AF is just incredible.

Perhaps you might do a series of tests to determine what the highest ISO acceptable might be for your uses. Once you have determined that ISO ceiling you can program your A7iii not to exceed that ISO when shooting in AUTO ISO mode. Additionally you might shoot the tests with bracketed exposures to see if your exposure will provide any changes... Also I suggest that you use a noise reduction program of some type to see if this helps... I use NIK Dfine for noise reduction but there and many other programs that do as well and perhaps better than Dfine to reduce the noise.

ISO 5,000 is pretty high but should be within the capabilities of your A7iii. However for the illustrated image, I suggest that some changes in exposure might have benefited the quality. First, I would consider shooting this at an aperture of f/5.6 or even f/4 which would allow an ISO of 2,500 or 1,250 respectively. The Sony OSS lenses combined with the IBIS of the A7iii would have easily allowed shooting as low as 1/125 second (or even lower), This would have allowed an exposure of 1/125 second at f/4 providing an ISO of ISO 640 or there about. The 1/125 second exposure would be plenty fast enough to freeze camera shake and the ISO 640 would give a much cleaner image. The wider aperture would have the added advantage of separating your main subject from the BG.


However, the uncropped version seems to me quite acceptable regarding the noise. It is only when you go into the 200% crop that things seem to fall apart.

Of course, this doesn't solve your problem, if you want a camera that gives clean imagery using ISO 5,000 at a 200% enlargement...

[Antonio Correia]

Roy and Ole, thank you !
I do have Nik collection but I learned how to use noise reduction in LR. Here is a first approach.
On the other hand 200% is too much for inspection

[Antonio Correia]

Antonio,
I think Manfred is right... use a larger aperture (f/4 or f/2.8) and reduce ISO. Cheers, Antonio.

Th lens has a special filter to creat gorgeous bokeh which eats light. The maximum aperture available is 5.6 The filter is the apodization one based on the optical Smooth Trans Focus principle.
No option but lots of light or get another lens with wide aperture !

[Antonio Correia]

@ Richard
I set the shutter speed to double the focal range. In this instance the ISO goes up.
I have learned to work with LR in reducing the noise.
Thank you for your encouragement !
As I wrote before: it was a mistake to get this lens. I should have bought the 85 GM. Now... I will use this one and one day I will see...

[Antonio Correia]

Now guys, look at this beauty. Is it worth that 100mm lens ?
This one may not have the perfect bokeh, so what ?
Ah ! Sony 6500 !!!! APS-C !!!!

[rpcrowe]

Antonio wrote, "I should have bought the 85 GM."

Although the 85mm f/1.4 GM produces delicious bokeh, there is a lot to be said about the Sony 85mm f/1.8 OSS lens.

It is lighter, focuses quicker, is less than half the weight, sharp as a tack and costs about a third of what the GM costs. I got mine used at Adorama for $450 USD... Another great lens is the 70-200mm f/4 G OSS which is also lighter in weight and far less expensive than the f/2.8 GM version.

85mm f/1.8 OSS wide open - ISO 100 - it's a full frame lens but works well on my Sony APSC mirrorless cameras...




70-200mm f/4 G OSS wide open ISO 320 - also a full frame lens that works great on the APSC format...


Here's the A6400 with 70-200mm lens wide open at ISO 2500...


and ISO 5,000...


Speaking about a learning curve I tripped climbing the curve on the last two shots. I had the parameters for shooting my dog portraits memorized on #2 button but I mistakenly used the parameters memorized on the #1 button and didn't realize my mistake. It is still usable though.

[Antonio Correia]

Thank you Richard !
My wife has a A 6500 + Sony 85mm f/1.8 and I have made some shots with it, when it arrived home. She also has a zoom but a "poor" one only for travel purposes, the Sony 18-135 f/3.5-5.6
She is as demanding as I am in image quality terms... but the weight is important to be kept low in certain circumstances.
I am going to send back the 100 GM. I asked if I could, and it's OK.
And what am I going to get instead ?
A Sony SEL FE Full Frame Sonnar T* 55mm f/1.8 ZA !
I think it is good for everyday and for travel with the Sony 24mm f/2.8 and the Sony 85mm f/1.8.
What annoy us both is the changing lens.
I have now two or three plastic bags inside my pouch to drop the camera and lenses in and make the lens swap both hands outside. Perhaps it is a good idea...
We had bad experiences changing lenses even taking all the usual cautions...
Any thought ? Thanks !

[rpcrowe]

"I think it is good for everyday and for travel with the Sony 24mm f/2.8 and the Sony 85mm f/1.8.
What annoy us both is the changing lens."

I understand the frustration with changing lenses. That is why I selected the APSC format Sony cameras and carry both the A6500 and A6400 so I can have two lenses immediately available. Using the 85mm f/1.8 with a wide angle on the second camera is "almost" like using a zoom lens with the quality and wide aperture of prime lenses.

I was at a photo shoot with my camera club and one of the members was using this Peak Design lens changing kit which seemed to work pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypx0kTRVEo

He said that he liked this kit very much and wonders why more single camera shooters don't use it. Since I have never used one myself, I can't give it a 100% recommendation. However, as I said, it looked very handy when the club member was using his and against the costs of photo equipment, it doesn't seem terribly expensive. I have a Peak Design camera strap and it is made exceptionally well...

Maybe another CIC member who has used one can provide more information on it.