Ladeside, December 4th 2010

[Donald]

Went out for a walk around our village this morning.

The purpose of this was twofold:

1. To make a record of life in our community. Part of a project that's been festering away inside me for far too long - although I think I'm starting to build up a portfolio of work
2. To convey the sense that when it's drab and grey, snow loses its pretty, winter scene, Bing Crosby-like appeal. But don't tell Katy I said so.

40D, 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM @ 38mm. ISO100. 1/60@f8. Manual. 8:55am

[Donald]

Just looked at it again and saw all the halos. Aaargh!

So, apart from that .......!

[Camellia]

Hi Donald

It still seems pretty to me; however, I have never experienced snow. But I do get the sense that the road is dirty, grubby, mucky and that there is a lot of cleaning up to do. I like the way the road leads the eye into the scene. The cars also lead the eye and give a sense of the magnitude of the work to come. I hope I've said the right things.

[Katy Noelle]

Hi, Donald! Neato! The chimneys in the upper right third just draw me in and make me stare. They look so different, quaint and fairytale to me. The street does look a mess but, I get the sense of people living here (the cars, the wires, the plowed street - evidence of people) but of cozy, quietness - people warm and safe, buried in their homes (the cars parked). It, honestly, makes me feel like it's a holiday or, at least, the day's work is done. I, also, got hooked easily by the "exotic" location and, then, wanted to look because there was so much to see - what IS down that road and around that bend? The chimneys and rooftops and road all made me stop and study to see - there's so much hidden here. I love that! That added another wave of subtle emotion and reaction. Put simply, the image made me stop and stare! Sorry about the "cozy" interpretation.

It's great, though, as I was writing all of this, I never had to scroll up to "double check" what I'd seen. The image is imprinted in my mind - although, I think I want to go take another look to see what I missed.

[carregwen]

Donald

It is a pretty scene, and I know you wanted to portray the drabness of old snow, but it does look a bit flat to me. I boosted the exposure, apart from the top of the sky, which gives it more vitality, whilst not losing the slushiness.

[Donald]

Thanks for the comments, folks.

I think you're right Rob. Not sure I'd go as far as you've gone (I know you only had the JPEG), but I think I sort of knew it needed that but wanted it not to ... if you see what I mean!

Going to re-work and see what happens, because I think there's soemthing there to keep for my documentary series on the community.

[carregwen]

Not sure I'd go as far as you've gone...
No, it's not wise to go as far as I do.

I'll have a crack at it, if you want to release the RAW? It looks an interesting RAW challenge. Up to you. http://uploading.com/signup/

[ScoutR]

Just looked at it again and saw all the halos. Aaargh!

So, apart from that .......!

Hi Donald: Love this shot. I think you've captured the mood bang on and I doubt that I would do anything to brighten it up, but that's just me. I'm used to these dull dreary days, and you've managed to capture a brilliantly composed shot that is wonderful to look at, even though the drearyness of it all still shows through.

On another note. Could you please point out the halos. I have never been able to spot halos unless they jump out at me, and I don't see them in this shot. I'm sure I get tons in all my shots, because I wouldn't see them if they were there. I was working on this a while back with Dave H. but had so much trouble that I gave it up. If there are halos in this shot, then I better start watching again and training my eyes to see them

Wendy

[Donald]

Thanks, Wendy.

Now I'm getting torn between differing viewpoints.

Rob's got the RAW file. So let's see what can be done when another perspective is applied.

Halos - Look closely along the left-hand edge of the bits of branch sticking up vertically above the building at the top left, and at the left edge of the telegraph pole on the hill at the back.

ps - And on the left hand edge of the nearest chimney pot.

[ScoutR]

Thanks Donald - if I view full size I can see them but barely. I don't know if it is a problem with my eyes or if halos just don't bother me that much unless really obvious. I guess part of the problem is that I am never thinking in terms of enlarging and printing, so I just view things at the size they are posted here. For purposes of the forum, that makes sense to me.

Anyway, love all the snow shots you've been putting up recently. You guys really got smacked. Ours is still to come. Just light flurries so far, nothing that has stayed.

Wendy

[carregwen]

Rob's got the RAW file.

Thank you for that, old boy. Spiffing!

Big improvement over my earlier edit. I did quite a lot to it though.

Edited in ACR

1. Used grad tool at top to make sky darker and at bottom to brighten and contrast road area
2. Cropped to size you see.
3. Sharpened
4. Increased WB a bit warmer

In CS5

1. Converted to BW using Silver Efex Pro (I used the High Structure filter which gives it a slightly grungy dirty look which is what I thought you wanted)
2. Applied slight linear tone curve
3. Did quite a bit of dodging and burning to make snow brighter and road darker
4. Sharpened using smart sharpen

Your original followed by my RAW edit. If you want to see it at 1024px it's on my flickr (not public) HERE

[Dave Humphries]

On another note. Could you please point out the halos. I have never been able to spot halos unless they jump out at me, and I don't see them in this shot. I'm sure I get tons in all my shots, because I wouldn't see them if they were there. I was working on this a while back with Dave H. but had so much trouble that I gave it up. If there are halos in this shot, then I better start watching again and training my eyes to see them

WENDY, shame on you

Forgive me Donald, for using your shot to hammer a point home
(you know I'm only kidding Wendy) but it is a good example.

From the right hand side of Donald's picture, this is a screen snip from when it was being viewed at 100% in the Lytebox



On the snow covered roof edge; see the white edge in sky and dark edge immediately adjacent on snow covered roof?

Also; view the snow covered porch edge, see how the bright white edge is most significant where it passes in front of the dark window?
That's kind of proof it is a sharpening artefact and not natural light at play, the way it differs depending what's behind.

My guess; a bit too wide a radius used (probably approaching a whole pixel) at too high an amount.

I prefer the brighter version Rob did, but that (first jpg version) looks oversharpened in a different way (to me anyways), there are too many speckles all at the same level in the detail of a certain size; snow on road and snow in tree on left.

First, here is the same area and Rob has effectively removed the white edge, probably because the sky has been brought up to the same luminance level, but the black edge remains;



Finally, the uniform speckles;



UPDATE:
Just seen Rob's second go from RAW, much better, but still has some of the black edges in the roof area, perhaps it was really like that?



But hey, it's easy to find fault, just look closely at one of my shots

[Donald]

Excellent Dave. A valuable lesson for all of us. Hopefully more than just Wendy and I will study this and learn from it.

[Donald]

I think we have to agree that Rob's version (on the bottom) does give us an image that is better to look at, without losing that sense of drabness that I was aiming for.

Thanks for doing this Rob.

I'd be interested to hear the views of others after comparing the two versions.

[ScoutR]

Yes thank you Dave these are very good examples, so thanks for taking the time to put them up. I AM studying and learning and this is very helpful.

However, I would never reject a shot like this based on the halos that are present. I would however like to get a better eye at spotting them so that I could avoid or correct them, because even though I might not notice all these individual little artefacts when looking at a shot, I'm sure the combination of all the technical things add up and are a large part of what seperate the Good as in - I really like to look at this from the shots that get flipped through.

Thanks again
Wendy

[ScoutR]

I'd be interested to hear the views of others after comparing the two versions.

I still think I'd like a combination of the two.

I would like Rob's version better if the diry parts of the snow looked dirtier and I would like Donald's version better if the clean parts of the snow looked whiter.
I don't know if that makes sense, but that would look more natural to me.

Wendy

[Dave Humphries]

I am beginning to think that at this minute level of pixel peeping, the jpg process is becoming a significant factor too. I bet these look better as Tif and don't have quite as much evidence.

[carregwen]

I still think I'd like a combination of the two.

I would like Rob's version better if the diry parts of the snow looked dirtier and I would like Donald's version better if the clean parts of the snow looked whiter.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Yes, it does. I think the problem is that the snow isn't all that dirty and slushy yet. When you see it in towns it gets dirty from traffic fumes etc, but here it's not quite dirty enough. Not the right kind of snow.

[Dave Humphries]

I AM studying and learning and this is very helpful.

Oh, I know and you're doing far better than me - ever noticed how you guys and gals all get in the Mini Comp Hall of fame and I'm nowhere to be seen

I should get out more and put what I preach into practice

[Wirefox]

The first image is in the McKenzie mood and I prefer it because of that. However, the subject matter is too tightly crammed to allow you to work your unique compositional magic. Robs version opens things up a little, but I can always smell wood smoke when viewing your work and I do not get the slightest whiff with Rob's version. Rob gets his wrists slapped and gets to stand on the naughty step for messing with the work of a mood photographer....even if it is a highly skilled bit of PP