Balancing Natural Light with flash in indoor photography

[cauger61]

Sanjib, it would help if you can explain exactly what it is that you are not happy about the exposure. By "exposure" I am referring specifically to the brightness or darkness of the foreground subject (buckets) and the background.

But in the meantime ..................





No, not if you are happy with the result.

But when shooting indoor shots with low light you may be forced to use a low shutter speed that is going to cause camera shake problems or the result will be affected by subject movement. These can possibly be overcome by increasing ISO but that is going to increase the noise.

There's a big difference between shooting a static subject from a tripod than shooting a fidgety child hand held in low light




Assuming you are shooting without flash, if you use Aperture priority, you need to know exactly what your Speed is doing. You could use Auto ISO and set a 'Minimum' Speed.



Personally, I would ignore colour at present until you become more practised and confident with your exposure procedure.

Grahame sorry, I might have used a wrong term -- the exposure; it should have been sharpness, because I used monopod all along. You are very correct, it is the sharpness which matters, in indoor lights. Further I was concerned with the colours. Do they are better represented by using flash while shooting indoors in natural lights? My problem was that as a beginner, I was struggling with how to balance and/or complement natural light with flash, because direction of light brightens up one side while the other side remains shadowy. I was trying to light up that other side using my on-camera flash and ended up with varying colours.
O.K. now my doubts are clarified. Thnx a lot to all of you for the patience hearing of my photographic trials which I might have presented a bit confusingly.

With best regards.

[pnodrog]

Stick the camera in manual and get on with your photography.

It's amazing how some members in camera clubs have a very poor grasp of the technical side yet still produce really good work. Don't get bogged down with technique at the expense of subject choice, composition, creativity and expression....

P.S. I am only partly serious about leaving it in auto but very serious about you getting on with your photography.

[cauger61]

Stick the camera in manual and get on with your photography.

It's amazing how some members in camera clubs have a very poor grasp of the technical side yet still produce really good work. Don't get bogged down with technique at the expense of subject choice, composition, creativity and expression....

P.S. I am only partly serious about leaving it in auto but very serious about you getting on with your photography.

Ha, ha, ha..... LOL. Thnx u, Thnx u, Thnx u so much Paul for your extremely encouraging and friendly gesture!! That doesn't mean anything to others. Everybody here is extremely helpful, friendly, patient and encouraging while technically sound to the best.

With best regards.

[pnodrog]

Ha, ha, ha..... LOL. Thnx u, Thnx u, Thnx u so much Paul for your extremely encouraging and friendly gesture!! That doesn't mean anything to others. Everybody here is extremely helpful, friendly, patient and encouraging while technically sound to the best.

With best regards.

I am glad you were not offended. Sometimes I can be bit blunt but mean well....

[Manfred M]

Thnx Manfred. Here my settings differ with those suggested by you in the following ways:

1) Your suggested shooting mode is manual; mine was Aperture priority

2) Your suggestion is self determined ISO; mine was Auto ISO as decided by the camera

3) with regard to White Balance, there was no difference -- I set daylight instead of AWB

O.K. with regard to histogram shape, I understand all of yours points.

But my couple of questions are:

1) do one still requires to use flash even after getting correct (meter indicator at "0") exposure in the manual mode?

2) suppose that if one stick to aperture priority, does self determined ISO give better output than Auto- ISO?

3) with regard to colour representation of the objects as they are in reality, (pointed out by David in the last para of his comments), do you feel that flash helps in it or it kills the colour; so that natural light better captures the real colour?

Just a few thoughts for you. I assume you are using the flash that is built into your camera rather than a separate, small hot-shoe type flash (i.e. speedlight)?

I tend to use flash either in an automated TTL mode or shoot 100% manual, depending on the circumstances. When the subject or I are constantly moving around, this is when the automated approach you are using works best. If you have a static subject, like the one shown in your images, manual works best. While I do use auto-ISO in some shooting circumstances, I generally limit that to situations where the light is changing quickly, for instance photography where I am shooting on the street and am shooting in brightly lit areas for one shot and then working in a heavily shaded area for the next. For anything else I tend to use a set ISO and will select a setting that is low as I can get away with, as that gives the best results (best dynamic range, best colour depth and lowest digital noise).

White balance is not particularly important if you use raw, but if you use JPEG, it is important. Flash is set to around 5500K, which corresponds to your camera's flash or daylight colour temperature settings.

The reason I use flash is to give me the lighting that I want in the image. The exposure reading in your camera tells you that you will get a reasonably exposed image, but that is not the same as a well lit image. I shoot flash a lot, especially when working indoors or in the studio. It lets me control the light very well and I generally shoot more than one flash in the studio, but on location I tend to stick to one or two lights.

As an example, this is a flash shot done on location using a single speedlight. Does this enhance or "kill" the colour?



I could not have made this shot without flash as the man was standing in front of a window and I had to add light in order to get the image to work. Without flash this image would have been flat and dull. The reason photographer prefer shooting in a studio setting is that they can get much better colours than with ambient light, BUT I can 100% guarantee that they do not use the pop-up flash on their camera. They will either use off-camera flash or use a hot-shoe mounted flash that they reflect off a wall and /or ceiling (bounce flash). I used bounce flash in the picture I showed above.

[cauger61]

Thnx a lot Manfred, for your very illuminating analysis of the problem. Yes, you are very right. My flash is the built-in flash on the camera. I understand its limitations while at the same time, a flash is essential for capturing photos with backlit situations. Your description really helps me. Thnx u for giving so much time for analysing and elaborating upon my doubts.
With best regards.

[Polar01]

Sanjib I'm going to add my little bit to the talk. Auto ISO with flash is a big no, no. Also remember in manual when you adjust to get to the "O", in the view finder it is not the "RIGHT EXPOSURE" it is the exposure that the camera has decided is correct as to the way it has been told with such and such A,S, and ISO. This "right exposure" may not be what you the photographer wants, so it is up to you to adjust to get the right exposure you want.
I'm adding a link to a wildlife and landscape photographer Steve Perry who is a Nikon user. He writes and has some interesting video stuff on how Nikons work not really technical but can give good insight into how things like focus and exposure work. So just keep on practicing, practicing, and practicing also do not be afraid to post an image and ask for honest impressions of your work.

https://backcountrygallery.com/

Cheers: Allan

[Manfred M]

Thnx a lot Manfred, for your very illuminating analysis of the problem. Yes, you are very right. My flash is the built-in flash on the camera. I understand its limitations while at the same time, a flash is essential for capturing photos with backlit situations. Your description really helps me. Thnx u for giving so much time for analysing and elaborating upon my doubts.
With best regards.

Two areas that I did not address in my comments is at the heart of flash photography and those are:

1. Quality of light; and

2, Direction of light.

Both are considered crucial to making a strong image.

Let me start with the concept of light quality. Landscape photographers know all about it and that is why they choose to shoot at "Golden Hour"; shortly after sunrise and shortly before sunset. The light is soft and beautiful. Natural light portrait photographers in the Northern Hemisphere will shoot indoors near a north-facing window for very much the same reason; the light is soft and diffuse. I expect that natural light photographers in the Southern Hemisphere likely shoot near south-facing windows for the same reason. In general soft and diffuse with soft shadows is desirable lighting.

Softness of the light source is closely related to the size of the light source, relative to the subject. If you look at the size of your light source on your camera's built in flash (or even with one in a small flash / speedlight), it is still very small (unless you are taking a picture of your finger nail). What flasj photographers do to increase the size of their light source is to use an off-camera light modifier (like a softbox or umbrella) or swivel the flash and reflect the light off a nearby wall or ceiling.

You can't do either with the built in flash on a camera.


The direction of light is also important. If you look at the image I posted in #25, the light from the flash is coming from the camera right side and up high. That is because I pointed the flash there and bounced the light from the wall and ceiling of the room. Directional light casts shadows and shadows are what generally makes photos interesting.

The light on your built in flash has only one direction; straight ahead and that tends to produce flat, uninteresting light.


I use flash in a lot of my photography. Here is a sample of some of the flash units that I own ( a total of 7 not counting the ones built into my cameras). Built-in flash on a camera, small hot shoe flash (speedlight), bare bulb flash with external battery pack and studio lights. My preferred shooting approach is to get the flash off the camera and onto a light stand with a light modifier. If I can't do that, I will try to use bounce flash with a camera mounted flash. The only reason I will use the built in flash on the camera is to demonstrate how poor a light source it is and sometimes I will use it to trigger an off camera flash, if I have no other trigger available.

[cauger61]

Sanjib I'm going to add my little bit to the talk. Auto ISO with flash is a big no, no. Also remember in manual when you adjust to get to the "O", in the view finder it is not the "RIGHT EXPOSURE" it is the exposure that the camera has decided is correct as to the way it has been told with such and such A,S, and ISO. This "right exposure" may not be what you the photographer wants, so it is up to you to adjust to get the right exposure you want.
I'm adding a link to a wildlife and landscape photographer Steve Perry who is a Nikon user. He writes and has some interesting video stuff on how Nikons work not really technical but can give good insight into how things like focus and exposure work. So just keep on practicing, practicing, and practicing also do not be afraid to post an image and ask for honest impressions of your work.

https://backcountrygallery.com/

Cheers: Allan

Thnx Allen for your observation. But, the person whom you have referred to, Steve Perry; he himself recommends ISO Sensitivity ON i.e. enabling Auto-ISO on Nikon DSLR and that too in the Manual mode. Of course, I must say that the video that he has shown in the youtube, is on outdoor wildlife photography. My case is an indoor one.

My second question is, this is just to expand my knowledge and not to argue. If "0" on the viewfinder reading we cannot accept as the "Right Exposure", how do we judge it. The question is further complicated if we are to decide whether to use flash or not.

Thnx and best regards.

Sanjib

[cauger61]

Manfred, this is with regard to your photograph in #25. Would you pls. post the Exif data of that image? Was that a daytime photo? Why the ambience is with a golden yellow colour cast — is it because you deliberately adjusted the white balance in that way or it was in the afternoon setting sun? Also, it may appear to be silly, but just to know from an experienced person like you — would you call this to be a fill-flash or Slow-sync flash? To add to my further confusion, is that same as "dragging the shutter"!! One more advise from you; can one go for a Yongnuo speedlite, considering that on tight budget? I have got one YN568ex III in Amazon for just $100 for my Nikon D5300.

Thnx and regards

Sanjib

[Manfred M]

Manfred, this is with regard to your photograph in #25. Would you pls. post the Exif data of that image? Was that a daytime photo? Why the ambience is with a golden yellow colour cast — is it because you deliberately adjusted the white balance in that way or it was in the afternoon setting sun? Also, it may appear to be silly, but just to know from an experienced person like you — would you call this to be a fill-flash or Slow-sync flash? To add to my further confusion, is that same as "dragging the shutter"!! One more advise from you; can one go for a Yongnuo speedlite, considering that on tight budget? I have got one YN568ex III in Amazon for just $100 for my Nikon D5300.

Thnx and regards

Sanjib

The shot was taken in a log building that was built in the mid-1800s, so the natural wood gives it the warm ambient light. The camera settings (using a full-frame Nikon D810) were shooting with the Nikkor f/2.8 24-70mm lens at a 32mm focal length and a f/5 aperture. I used ISO 250 at a shutter speed of 1/60th second (so I did drag the shutter and this was definitely fill light as the man is back-lit). I suspect I used iTTL mode for this shot, rather than manual as this was a "run & gun" type shooting situation. This is a daylight / fill flash shot. White balance was likely auto, but that does not matter as I used the raw data for this image. In post I used a 4450K colour temperature with no tint adjustment
.

Slow synch is the same as "dragging the shutter".
As for the colours, the warm tones are natural but I suspect I likely I likely did a local retouch on the man to ensure he had a neutral colour.

Rather than the Yongnuo (they don't have the best reputation for build quality), you might want to consider the Godox TT685N (it's a tiny bit more money, but comes with a built in receiver should you go to off-camera flash) and has a more solid build quality. You have a better head swivel as well (360 degrees versus 270 degrees for the Yongnuo; the extra rotation is good for bounce flash).

[pschlute]

he himself recommends ISO Sensitivity ON i.e. enabling Auto-ISO on Nikon DSLR and that too in the Manual mode.

Using fixed ISO will give you the most predictable results, again and again and again. If you want to use AUTO ISO then fine, but dont complain when the light/shadows/form of the image are not consistent.

My second question is, this is just to expand my knowledge and not to argue. If "0" on the viewfinder reading we cannot accept as the "Right Exposure", how do we judge it. The question is further complicated if we are to decide whether to use flash or not.

"0" exposure is simply telling you that the camera's light meter is capable of displaying the reflected light of your image at what it considers to be correct exposure using a value of 18% (or is it 15%) grey.

Forgetting flash for a minute, this means take a picture of a black cat against a black wall and the meter at "0" is wrong (image is overexposed). Same for a white cat against a white wall (underexposed). The meter is wrong. You need to understand this if you are to move forward in your photography. Your meter will only be correct for a grey image.

[Manfred M]

Thnx Allen for your observation. But, the person whom you have referred to, Steve Perry; he himself recommends ISO Sensitivity ON i.e. enabling Auto-ISO on Nikon DSLR and that too in the Manual mode. Of course, I must say that the video that he has shown in the youtube, is on outdoor wildlife photography. My case is an indoor one.

My second question is, this is just to expand my knowledge and not to argue. If "0" on the viewfinder reading we cannot accept as the "Right Exposure", how do we judge it. The question is further complicated if we are to decide whether to use flash or not.

Thnx and best regards.

Sanjib

There is nothing wrong with using auto-ISO in manual mode. If you have determined that you need a specific shutter speed to handle the motion the way you want and need a specific aperture setting for depth of field reasons, ISO is the only variable left, especially when dealing in a variable light situation. Are you certain that this was in context with flash work though? With flash you have two additional exposure variables to deal with (other than shutter speed, aperture and ISO); the distance to the subject and the flash intensity (power). I can't think of any circumstances where I would not select the ISO manually when shooting flash.

Peter is quite right on the second point. The light meter that is built into your camera is a reflective light meter and there are some built in assumptions in how the meter works; i.e. the scene has an "average" amount of light reflecting back at the camera. Most higher end cameras have an exposure compensation control to over-ride this default. The situations that Peter lists are a bit hypothetical, in real life when I shoot a scene with snow on the ground or do a night shot, the camera's light meter cannot be trusted and the exposure has to be modified to get a correct exposure. The way I do this is to read my histogram to ensure that I am getting the exposure I want. This generally means that I don't want to see loss of shadow details or clipped highlights and if I err, I will err to having the histogram biased to the right hand side.

When I do portraiture, especially when I include flash, I will use a hand-held incident light meter, rather than the light meter built into my camera. I will be shooting 100% manual (no aperture or shutter priority and no auto-ISO).

Chosing whether to use flash or not is a bit of a complicated question and it depends on the shooting situation, the equipment available as well as the look I am after.

Another example. You should recognize the location and person in the picture that I took earlier. When I saw the outcome, I took my flash along on my next visit to fix the main issues in this image. The natural lighting was a bit brighter in this image.

[cauger61]

The shot was taken in a log building that was built in the mid-1800s, so the natural wood gives it the warm ambient light. The camera settings (using a full-frame Nikon D810) were shooting with the Nikkor f/2.8 24-70mm lens at a 32mm focal length and a f/5 aperture. I used ISO 250 at a shutter speed of 1/60th second (so I did drag the shutter and this was definitely fill light as the man is back-lit). I suspect I used iTTL mode for this shot, rather than manual as this was a "run & gun" type shooting situation. This is a daylight / fill flash shot. White balance was likely auto, but that does not matter as I used the raw data for this image. In post I used a 4450K colour temperature with no tint adjustment
.

Slow synch is the same as "dragging the shutter".
As for the colours, the warm tones are natural but I suspect I likely I likely did a local retouch on the man to ensure he had a neutral colour.

Rather than the Yongnuo (they don't have the best reputation for build quality), you might want to consider the Godox TT685N (it's a tiny bit more money, but comes with a built in receiver should you go to off-camera flash) and has a more solid build quality. You have a better head swivel as well (360 degrees versus 270 degrees for the Yongnuo; the extra rotation is good for bounce flash).

Thnx a lot Manfred!! Great answer and a great advise from an experienced person. I would love to disturb you further once I purchase the speed lite suggested by you. But I find that in Amazon, they are selling two versions of Good — 1) Godox Thinklite TT685 TTL Flash for Nikon, which costs Rs.8000/- (around $100) and 2) Godox TT685/N TT685N Speedlite High-Speed Sync External TTL For Nikon which costs Rs18000/- (around $250). Would you mind going through them, if I send you the links? If Godox is in that range, then is it not better to buy SB-700 for Nikon!! But I think there is a mistake on their part. I shall be thankful enough if you kindly look into:

1) https://www.amazon.in/Godox-Thinklit...s%2C792&sr=8-1


2) https://www.amazon.in/Godox-TT685N-S.../dp/B01DQWBVVU

With best regards

Sanjib

[Manfred M]

Thnx a lot Manfred!! Great answer and a great advise from an experienced person. I would love to disturb you further once I purchase the speed lite suggested by you. But I find that in Amazon, they are selling two versions of Good — 1) Godox Thinklite TT685 TTL Flash for Nikon, which costs Rs.8000/- (around $100) and 2) Godox TT685/N TT685N Speedlite High-Speed Sync External TTL For Nikon which costs Rs18000/- (around $250). Would you mind going through them, if I send you the links? If Godox is in that range, then is it not better to buy SB-700 for Nikon!! But I think there is a mistake on their part. I shall be thankful enough if you kindly look into:

1) https://www.amazon.in/Godox-Thinklit...s%2C792&sr=8-1


2) https://www.amazon.in/Godox-TT685N-S.../dp/B01DQWBVVU

With best regards

Sanjib

From what I can tell, Godox makes two versions of this flash. One uses a radio trigger to fire of camera flash and the second unit uses optical triggering (much like the mainstream Nikon flashes). I can't tell for sure which is which in the Amazon India website.

If you get into serious flash work and go off-camera at one point in the future, the radio triggers is the way I would go. It is far more reliable than the optical triggers. From what I can tell from the Amazon.in website, the only difference between the two packages are the accessories that are provided.

If I were you, I would go with the less expensive unit as the additional stuff provided with the higher cost unit look like things you might never use and they are charging a lot of money for those...

The lower cost unit will allow you to do on-camera hot shoe flash using iTTL, which is what I did in the image in #25. If you decide to go off-camera at some point, you will need a light stand, a light modifier (photo umbrella) and a flash mount and likely a radio trigger. None of these are part of the more expensive package.

I hope that this helps.

[Polar01]

Sanjib: Your statement from post 29
"My second question is, this is just to expand my knowledge and not to argue. If "0" on the viewfinder reading we cannot accept as the "Right Exposure", how do we judge it. The question is further complicated if we are to decide whether to use flash or not."
This is where the fun comes in, and it comes from practice, and experience. If you were to take an image over and over again under the same conditions as per lighting, with the only difference the camera's controls Auto, S, A, M, or P changing the camera's AI will want to meter the light to get as middle grey or 18% grey thus all the images will look the same. Peter in post #32 uses the black cat, white cat example it always messes up the camera's AI as to the exposure. From experience one learns that that white cat is going to be 1 to 1.67 stops underexposed so we apply exposure compensation to get the desired results.
Hold on going to throw another wrench into the works. We take our images into a processing program, (myself Adobe Camera Raw then Photoshop), and here we can adjust the exposure of the image but didn't we get the correct exposure before we took the shot? We use the camera and our brains (knowledge) to capture the best possible amount of data (exposure) so we can get the best image to present to other.
When using lights, sometime we may just want a kiss of light, another time we may want push back the light from a bright source (a window). So to me the correct exposure is the one that you want and decide on. The camera's AI will get you close however it may not be what you want. To get that practice, practice, and more practice, if it was easy you would not be asking questions and learning.

Cheers: Allan

[pschlute]

The situations that Peter lists are a bit hypothetical

Ahem

[Manfred M]

The situations that Peter lists are a bit hypothetical

Ahem

I was referring to how one would meter the shot rather than take the shot. Using purely i-TTL is not going to be the preferred approach.

[William W]

. . . My flash is the built-in flash on the camera. I understand its limitations while at the same time, a flash is essential for capturing photos with backlit situations. . .

Yes, Flash is good for some Backlit Situations.

However, Flash is not 'essential' for capturing photos with the Subject in a Backlit situation.

I caution you about adhering to absolutes.

WW

Back-Side Light, Diffuse Sunlight:


Back-Top Light, Street Light


Back-Top Light, Room LED Ceiling Lights:


Backlight, Diffuse Sunlight:


Backlight, Light cloud covered sun:


All Images © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2019 WMW 1965~1996

[cauger61]

Yes, Flash is good for some Backlit Situations.

However, Flash is not 'essential' for capturing photos with the Subject in a Backlit situation.

I caution you about adhering to absolutes.

WW

Back-Side Light, Diffuse Sunlight:


Back-Top Light, Street Light


Back-Top Light, Room LED Ceiling Lights:


Backlight, Diffuse Sunlight:


Backlight, Light cloud covered sun:


All Images © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2019 WMW 1965~1996

William, this is astonishing as how all these shots could be taken without the help of flash!! Would you pls. elaborate how could you make the faces of your subjects well exposed against bright backgrounds? There are opposite scenarios as well; as for example the "Mother and Child" and "Young Athlete" images. Did you use long shutter on a tripod? what was the lens/ Very fascinating group of images which encourage lots of experimentation. Thnx a lot for sharing your experience, helping me to expand my photographic horizon. With best regards.
Sanjib