photo display on wide gamut monitor vs sRGB monitor

[Larry2]

I have two monitors side-by-side. One is Dell UP2414Q (AdobeRGB monitor) and the other Dell P2415Q (sRGB monitor). Both are calibrated using Spyder4, showing the former covering 99% AdobeRGB and the latter 100% sRGB.

I use color managed software (both Lightroom and Photoshop) to display the same photo on both monitor. My understanding is that the photo will be displayed as the same on both monitors, given that the colors in the photo are with in the sRGB range. However, the photo displayed on the monitors are different in color. All colors in the photo displayed on the AdobeRGB monitor are stronger than on the sRGB monitor. They behave the same as they display colors with a software of no color mangement, pushing sRGB colors on the AdobeRGB monitor to stronger colors.

Should I expect the same colors in the same photo be displayed the same on both monitors using a color managed software?

[Shadowman]

Are both monitors set at default color temperatures? And no, they won't be exactly equal but somewhat close.

[Manfred M]

I run a similar setup with my main screen as an Adobe RGB compliant screen and my side screen being sRGB compliant. Both screens are calibrated and profiled.

If by "stronger" you mean more saturated, that is exactly what one would expect. The sRGB colour space can show about 35% of visible colours while the Adobe RGB is in the 50% range. The main difference is between the two is Adobe RGB displays more saturated colours, especially in the green / blue range, although it also has a very slightly wider range for some of the red / yellows as well..




As someone who prints a lot, I do find that the AdobeRGB screen and my prints look closer in colour than when I look at the sRGB screen and my prints. My AdobeRGB screen has a switch that lets me toggle between sRGB and Adobe RGB and even then, the colours of the more expensive Adobe RGB screen look better when both screens are in the sRGB setting. Of course, I am not 100% confident in what the screen driver software is doing in this dual colour space situation.

[xpatUSA]

Should I expect the same colors in the same photo be displayed the same on both monitors using a color managed software?

You should expect the same colors within reason. Something is not right.

Not sure about the use of "the same photo" at the same time; I would have thought that, if you present an sRGB image to the "aRGB" monitor, your color management system should reduce the RGB values passed to the aRGB monitor.

Someone here should be able to help with that - I don't have any of your stuff, including Adobe.

[edit] I see that Manfred just said "I am not 100% confident in what the screen driver software is doing in this dual colour space situation", so he is as unsure as myself about your setup ... [/edit]

[xpatUSA]

If by "stronger" you mean more saturated, that is exactly what one would expect. The sRGB colour space can [only] show about 35% of visible colours while the Adobe RGB is in the 50% range.

The OP said that "the colors in the photo are with in the sRGB range". Why would they look more saturated on the wider monitor, Manfred?

[edit] this test image might be interesting [/edit]

[pschlute]

Both are calibrated using Spyder4

So you have two distinct monitor profiles. When you right click on each monitor and look in display settings can you see a different profile being used for each monitor ?

[Larry2]

If by "stronger" you mean more saturated, that is exactly what one would expect.

yes, they are more saturated.

I think the colors of sRGB should look the same on both monitors. With the color management in place, the sRGB color values should be mapped to aRGB color values to look as the same on an aRGB monitor.

I agree that if the color is not managed, colors in sRGB will be more saturated displayed on an aRGB monitor.

[Larry2]

So you have two distinct monitor profiles. When you right click on each monitor and look in display settings can you see a different profile being used for each monitor ?

Yes, two distinct monitor profiles are loaded as reported by Spyder software every time the machine starts up.

[Larry2]

Are both monitors set at default color temperatures? And no, they won't be exactly equal but somewhat close.

Yes, the monitor settings are set to the same color temperature and have been calibrated.

[Manfred M]

yes, they are more saturated.

I think the colors of sRGB should look the same on both monitors. With the color management in place, the sRGB color values should be mapped to aRGB color values to look as the same on an aRGB monitor.

I agree that if the color is not managed, colors in sRGB will be more saturated displayed on an aRGB monitor.

Unfortunately, that is not how things work. Remember, the main difference between an sRGB and Adobe RGB display is the ability of the Adobe RGB screen to display more vibrant colours. With an sRGB display, the vibrant colours cannot be reproduced.

Let's assume that the saturated colours are out-of-gamut (OOG) for your sRGB display. At that point the "rendering intent" for the display driver takes over and the perceptual colorimetric rendering intent is used by the screen driver. This means that all out of gamut colours are assigned the nearest colour that is in gamut. The less saturated colours that your sRGB display can handle will still be there, but all the saturated colours that it cannot will have been "dulled down" so that they can be displayed. Your sRGB screen can only display the colour range that its gamut is capable of displaying.

Colour management has nothing to do with more or less saturated colours. It is all about ensuring that colours are displayed as accurately as possible within the limitations of your specific hardware, especially when going from one device to another; camera -> display -> printer. A non-compliant computer screen cannot be made compliant through the calibration and profiling process. A sRGB gamut screen cannot be made into one that can display the Adobe RGB colour space.

[pschlute]

Larry. What color space is your image tagged with ?

[xpatUSA]

Unfortunately, that is not how things work. Remember, the main difference between an sRGB and Adobe RGB display is the ability of the Adobe RGB screen to display more vibrant colours. With an sRGB display, the vibrant colours cannot be reproduced.

Let's assume that the saturated colours are out-of-gamut (OOG) for your sRGB display. At that point the "rendering intent" for the display driver takes over and the perceptual colorimetric rendering intent is used by the screen driver. This means that all out of gamut colours are assigned the nearest colour that is in gamut. The less saturated colours that your sRGB display can handle will still be there, but all the saturated colours that it cannot will have been "dulled down" so that they can be displayed. Your sRGB screen can only display the colour range that its gamut is capable of displaying.

Colour management has nothing to do with more or less saturated colours. It is all about ensuring that colours are displayed as accurately as possible within the limitations of your specific hardware, especially when going from one device to another; camera -> display -> printer. A non-compliant computer screen cannot be made compliant through the calibration and profiling process. A sRGB gamut screen cannot be made into one that can display the Adobe RGB colour space.

Manfred, there seems to be a serious misunderstanding - which is not being helped by the standard lecture on what his monitors can or cannot reproduce.

The OP clearly stated that his test image is "within sRGB", so could you please answer the question in my post #5?

[pschlute]

A sRGB gamut screen cannot be made into one that can display the Adobe RGB colour space.

I admit this is a subject which has me reaching for the wine bottle..... but surely Larry's problem is the opposite. He has a Adobe1998RGB capable screen which is capable of displaying sRGB colours but is not doing so.

Surely the problem must lie within the tag of the image; or the montor profile not being applied, or a setting within the colour managed software he is using.

I use a wide gamut monitor and expect to see sRGB tagged images displayed without the saturation boost that an untagged image or an incorrect profile would yield. And I do !

I do not expect both his screens to be identical, but they should be close.

[Manfred M]

Manfred, there seems to be a serious misunderstanding - which is not being helped by the standard lecture on what his monitors can reproduce.

The OP clearly stated that his test image is "within sRGB", so could you please answer the question in my post #5?

Sorry missed that Ted. Unfortunately, the problem that there are so many variables at play here that we are guessing.

My setup is similar to his and I get similar results on my displays, even though they have both been calibrated and profiled with an xRite i1 Display Pro to the same output level (in candela / sq m); hence my previous comment that you picked up on " Of course, I am not 100% confident in what the screen driver software is doing in this dual colour space situation."

I was referring to my own experience. I should have included a comment regarding how the operating system, screen drivers and video card work as well. I am using a workstation rather than consumer level Radeon Pro WX 5100 graphics card and driver on my setup. Unfortunately, this whole area has very limited material that I can find on line with regard to all of these variables.

The colour and brightness of both screens look a bit different, even when both are set to sRGB mode. This does not bother me as I can get a good, solid, believable output when working with either screen and to me, that is the important part. I have a number of different reference images and frankly I don't trust the colour accuracy of the sRGB screen as much as I do with the Adobe RGB screen that cost about 5x more.

[pschlute]

Very off topic here but I worked for a very short while at a TV salesroom when I was a student. Banks of different TVs filling one wall. Colours and contrast on all slightly (or very) different.

The manager would tell us to adjust the surrounding ones in a non flattering way when he wanted to shift a specific model.

[xpatUSA]

I admit this is a subject which has me reaching for the wine bottle..... but surely Larry's problem is the opposite. He has a Adobe1998RGB capable screen which is capable of displaying sRGB colours but is not doing so.

I do not expect both his screens to be identical, but they should be close.

I agree. I wonder if Larry has a screen color picker such as "Color Cop" and what that might tell us.

For example and in theory the green patch on the good old X-rite color checker should show up as RGB = 71, 150, 69 in sRGB and 101, 148, 76 in Adobe RGB (1998) - if Bruce is to be believed:

http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index....alculator.html
.

[Manfred M]

I agree. I wonder if Larry has a screen color picker such as "Color Cop" and what that might tell us.

For example and in theory the green patch on the good old X-rite color checker should show up as RGB = 71, 150, 69 in sRGB and 101, 148, 76 in Adobe RGB (1998) - if Bruce is to be believed:

http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index....alculator.html
.

The problem with that exercise is that unless your screen has been profiled and calibrated, the correlation between the values that are shown and what you see may not be as close as you think. Even if it has, as in Larry's question, the software can be putting out a colour value that is not close enough to what the screen should be showing.

[dje]

I don't have two monitors so I can't test this but I wonder if Windows (or Mac) can handle two different monitor profiles simultaneously? Two separate data streams would have to be sent to the video card and it would have to process them separately. I read somewhere that it might be possible to use special software for some video cards to handle this but have no details.

Dave

[pschlute]

I don't have two monitors so I can't test this but I wonder if Windows (or Mac) can handle two different monitor profiles simultaneously? Two separate data streams would have to sent to the video card and it would have to process them separately. I read somewhere that it might be possible to use special software for some video cards to handle this but have no details.

Dave

Well I have no idea either as I have only ever used one monitor at home. At work i had six but that had nothing to do with photography ! More than one monitor will require I expect a video card with the capabilty and software to match. Different colour spaces present more complications.

[Larry2]

Larry. What color space is your image tagged with ?

1. I open a photo tagged sRGB using Photoshop on two monitors. It is displayed differently with more saturated colors on aRGB monitor than sRGB monitor. For instance, drag the Photoshop window with the photo from one monitor to the other and the colors change.

I tried using different photo viewers such as Photo of Windows 10. The same result.

2. I open a RAW file in Lightroom on the two monitors. The colors are different. Drag the Lightroom window with the photo from one monitor to the other and the colors change.