Gentle Eyes

[Ziggy]

[Shadowman]

Nicely captured.

[pschlute]

Agreed. I always think deer have sweet eyes.

[rpcrowe]

Lovely portrait...

[DanK]

agreed, a very nice shot. However, my days of thinking of deer as nice to have around are unfortunately over. They have become serious pests, even though they are gentle animals. Much of the damage they do--to forests as well as to suburban gardens--is ultimately our fault, a result of human activity reducing the population of their native predators to the point where the deer populations are simply far too large for their shrinking native habitat. However, that doesn't lessen the damage they do. And now that they carry a form of Chronic Wasting Disease--a truly awful class of diseases with no cure--they are actually a threat to human health as well. Very little is known as yet about transmission to humans; see https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/index.html. However, other CWDs have been transmissible to humans. Some states now tell hunters never to eat any deer without having the carcasses properly inspected for CWD. I don't hunt, so I don't worry about that personally, but there is a concern about transmission via body fluids. So they may look cute and harmless, but they aren't in fact harmless anymore. We haven't had them on our property, but I would seek out aggressive measures to keep them away if they appeared.

Other CWDs that have caused problems are scrapie and bovine spongiform encephalopathy. These are similar to Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease, an invariably fatal human degenerative brain disorder. There was a serious concern several years ago about transmission of these via contamination of meat with brain or spinal cord tissue.

Some suburban jurisdictions have been resorting to planned, localized hunting to cull the population and get it a little closer to the level the environment can support. I haven't read anything about how effective this has been.

[pschlute]

Interesting Dan.

We live too close to town (and London) to have many wild deer, but I have seen one live one in our garden (obviously lost) and one dead one nearby. But they are not a regular sight here

[Shadowman]

Dan,

You state they have no native predators yet municipalities (most) serve that function, except when the prey strikes back. As far as what they do to the forests, not sure what you mean exactly but what they do is probably natural and has been happening forever, what they do to gardens can somewhat be prevented (fences, dogs, etc.) yet even those deterrents are probably frowned upon by some advocacy group. On another note, we had a local woman who had been continually warned not to feed deer in the park, she ignored the warnings and served 15 days in jail.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/scien...-fatal-attack/

[DanK]

No, what they are doing to forests they have not done forever. Because of overpopulation, they are overgrazing on new growth. I’d have to do a search to find again material on the moderate - term damage this does. When their population was in better balance, the amount of grazing on new growth was not enough to upset the equilibrium in the forest.

In many niches, predators are key species, so a reduction in their numbers can throw the entire system out of whack. This isn’t the only example.

I’m not sure what you mean by saying that most municipalities serve as predators. To my knowledge, none in this are have any programs to cull deer. Ditto, wild turkeys, which can now be seen wandering around in groups on city streets. They are not as serious a problem, but there have been cases of attacks by turkeys. Having raised turkeys in my youth, I can tell you that an attack by a turkey isn’t as humorous as it sounds. But the point is that while some towns have programs to teach people to coexist with turkeys, I’m not aware of any that have programs that kill them, to replace predators.


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[Shadowman]

Dan,

Municipalities serve as predators by issuing hunting licenses which most use to cull deer populations.

[DanK]

No municipalities I have lived in have allowed hunting. Where I live now, discharging any firearm for any purpose is illegal, except in legally defensible cases of self-defense (which are very limited here).

In Massachusetts, hunting licenses are issued by the state and do not confer the right to hunt within municipalities that prohibit it. Hunting deer with rifles or handguns is always illegal. One is allowed to hunt with a shotgun for a period of 13 days per year, except that hunting is prohibited on any Sundays that fall in that time window. There is a longer period for archers and--this is massachusetts, after all--an additional short season for primitive muzzleloaders, like those used in the Revolutionary war. These are long-standing policies, I believe, and were not put in place to offset the very large increases in population that we have seen over the past two or three decades.

Some municipalities and counties have started allowing very limited hunts specifically to cull herds. For example, if I recall, Montgomery Cty MD (I may be remembering this incorrectly) has sometimes allowed people qualified as sharpshooters to hunt in specific areas on specific dates. this has to be tightly controlled, obviously, in any heavily populated area. Where I live, anyone trying to kill a deer would have a fair chance of shooting a neighbor instead.

Because of CWD, by the way, MA prohibits bringing live deer or parts from deer or related species into the state. The state posted a map of where CWD had been detected in deer and related species as of about a year ago (it's spreading):

[Shadowman]

New York State has a deer management program, it allows both bow and shotgun hunting, and it does regulate where the hunting can occur, although I've heard that some places allow homeowners to control their own property. We had a recent incident where a homeowner was shot while walking her dogs on her own property, not sure if the perpetrator mistook the dogs for deer or was just shooting blindly.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html#DeerPlan

[DanK]

New York State has a deer management program, it allows both bow and shotgun hunting, and it does regulate where the hunting can occur, although I've heard that some places allow homeowners to control their own property. We had a recent incident where a homeowner was shot while walking her dogs on her own property, not sure if the perpetrator mistook the dogs for deer or was just shooting blindly.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html#DeerPlan

or maybe really disliked that neighbor.

It looks like the state is taking this problem seriously.

We are way off the topic of photography, but control in what we call here "thickly settled" areas here seems like a real problem. MA is one of the states that has strict gun control, but even so, there is no screening to see how accurate people are. I think that is why some areas restrict hunting in those areas both to specified areas and to people who have been designated as sharpshooters.

In parts of NY, the problem is the inverse. We had a cabin in the central Adirondacks for 45 years, and that area is VERY thinly settled. The risk of harming other people is low, because the density of people is so low. I recall seeing only a single hunter in 45 years, although I did hear some. But at the same time, there aren't enough people to make much of a dent in the numbers, I suspect.

Most people have an aversion to living near predators, but predators may be part of the solution. Because of the devastation of the wolf population by hunters, coyotes have been extending their range in the northeast. (Closer to your area, some of them are actually partially wolf, genetically. If I recall, there is a display about this at The Wild in Tupper Lake.) We have them here in the Boston area, and there are lots in somewhat less populated parts of the state. They are normally no risk to people, but there have been cases of Coyotes taking small pets. I think I have read that they do take deer, but not normally full-sized healthy ones. I must admit, however, that when a pack of them starts howling at night not far away, it does raise the hackles on your neck.

[Shadowman]

or maybe really disliked that neighbor.

It looks like the state is taking this problem seriously.

We are way off the topic of photography, but control in what we call here "thickly settled" areas here seems like a real problem. MA is one of the states that has strict gun control, but even so, there is no screening to see how accurate people are. I think that is why some areas restrict hunting in those areas both to specified areas and to people who have been designated as sharpshooters.

In parts of NY, the problem is the inverse. We had a cabin in the central Adirondacks for 45 years, and that area is VERY thinly settled. The risk of harming other people is low, because the density of people is so low. I recall seeing only a single hunter in 45 years, although I did hear some. But at the same time, there aren't enough people to make much of a dent in the numbers, I suspect.

Most people have an aversion to living near predators, but predators may be part of the solution. Because of the devastation of the wolf population by hunters, coyotes have been extending their range in the northeast. (Closer to your area, some of them are actually partially wolf, genetically. If I recall, there is a display about this at The Wild in Tupper Lake.) We have them here in the Boston area, and there are lots in somewhat less populated parts of the state. They are normally no risk to people, but there have been cases of Coyotes taking small pets. I think I have read that they do take deer, but not normally full-sized healthy ones. I must admit, however, that when a pack of them starts howling at night not far away, it does raise the hackles on your neck.

As sort of a way to get the thread back to photography, I suppose hunting seasons is a way of allowing everyone to enjoy nature, whether the enjoyment is through hiking and/or photographing nature, although I'm sure the hunting seasons are patterned around mating seasons when bucks are preoccupied on other things besides self preservation.