3 Bags 1 Baby - Composition

[MooreDynamic]

I took this image to showcase proper composition using a 35mm Prime Lens - As you can see the center bag is totally in focus while the other two are slightly out of focus. I partially used the lens ring to focus and The all important Fibonacci ratio for proper composition.

The bag on the left has split open and spilled its contents out, the center bag is partially split and the far right bag is totally sealed. I did some minor edits using Affinity Photo for brightness & contrast otherwise this is the RAW form image in JPG format.

You can probably surmise the contents in the bags based on the far left & center bag however what could be tucked away in the totally sealed right bag?

**Edit**
I am not sure why I can't uplpoad a full HD image & had to compress this file to be able to upload it to my post


Two TrashBags A+.jpg

[Manfred M]

I am not sure why I can't uplpoad a full HD image & had to compress this file to be able to upload it to my post

You might want to read this thread regarding posting. The CiC hosting capabilities are quite limited and a lot of members use third party hosting services to show our work.

[DanK]

I think you will find a number of people here who don't think there is "a proper composition." There are guidelines that are helpful, but different images call for different framing and different DOF, and there are often a number of good ways to compose a single shot. what we often have here is lively debates about alternatives, peppered with guidelines (not rules) such as 'it's usually not a good idea to have distracting detail or distracting bright areas on the borders,' or 'this would do better with more separation between the subject and the background.' I've personally profited a lot from these debates.

When I go to art museums, I routinely examine the compositional decisions made by artists I admire. If the museum allows it, I often take iPhone shots of images I particularly admire so that I can return to them later to study the composition. The one generalization that seems to be safe is that it is hard to generalize.

With respect to posting: it depends a bit on where your image is hosted, and there have been a lot of discussions about it since TinyPic, which used to be an option, went under. I have a Smugmug site (the site in my signature), and that makes it very easy: I create a link there, choosing the size I want, and just paste it here using the image icon. This site will automatically downsize it if necessary.

[xpatUSA]

The all important Fibonacci ratio for proper composition.

Sounds like "Golden" placement to me ...

[Rufus]

Jeremy, could you clarify what assistance you are seeking (other than how to upload images which has been added as postscrript)?

As the right hand bag is totally sealed we cannot know its contents, but we might surmise that it contains leaves, etc. like the other two.

Are you inviting comments about the composition of the image, the rationale for which you have explained, such as whether the Fibonacci ratio is evident? Are you interested in comments on the exposure, contrast, etc?

I am sorry if this is not helpful, but I am a liitle confused, and without additional guidance we can only further surmise and assume.

[MooreDynamic]

Rufus, yes I am new so I was not exactly sure what my very first post should be, I thought the title to be funny based on a documentary i watched a while back. It was actually a silly first post.

I am been searching for the right forum to post photos & get creative advice, I think CIC is absolutly amazing.

I bought the Sony A6000 about a year ago and I have hardly used it, I really need to get over my fear of taking pictures and get out and actually use the camera - I finished a course on Affinity Photo, I just need to get better with creative editing, taking amazing photos being able to understand all the functionality of Affinity Photo or Photoshop so I can edit any photo into whatever my imangination desires, I JUST need a photo buddy or advice so I don't feel "strange" walking around taking pictures of different everything. Any advice? My goal is to take as many pictures as possible with different settings and different compositions to get better, I was thinking after 5000 photos I will have a good working knowledge of the camera and also I need to keep improving my skill with Affinity & Photoshop.

ugh.... that was a long reply that isn't completly organized hopefully it was not too painful to read.

[MooreDynamic]

Also, I have never shot exclusively with a prime lens, so I am forcing myself to use the 35mm for everything right now

[MooreDynamic]

Also, I don't know how to like or thumbs up peoples posts, when I click on the "thumb" nothing happens

[Rufus]

I also think CiC is amazing. Here you will find great advice and helpful comments on every aspect of (still) photography. Several regular contributors have vast experience and some have deep theoretical knowledge too. I have learned a lot here and value the comments.

It is certainly the case that using your camera is the best way to get to know it; but don't forget to read the manual too so you have an idea of what is hidden in the depth of its menu structure!

If you have taken a post processing course, you have a made a good start. I don't use Affinity Pro, but I found a course really helpful for Lightroom, and my local camera club (all very much amateurs) very helpful too. It also helps you get yo grips with terminolgy to make internet search results more pertinent.

I imagine a photo buddy can help, although I have never had one as I prefer to take my time and be undistracted. However taking a day's outing with a "pro" on a 1-2-1 basis or in small group can be very worthwhile. Some are better than others though.

Welcome to CiC, I hope you find the support here that helps you pursue your hobby and derive great satisfaction from it. Others' images here are far superior to mine, but I take the view that for my own photograhy, the journey (learning, understand, appreciating) is as important as the destination (the final image).

[Rufus]

Also, I don't know how to like or thumbs up peoples posts, when I click on the "thumb" nothing happens

That happens to me too recently. I blame it on my Firefox browser settings, but don't know for certain.

[Manfred M]

Welcome to CiC Jeremey. We are essentially a learning community and the one reason I joined (some 8 years ago) was precisely for that reason.

Having a camera that you are not using is hardly a way to improve. Composing your shot, using the appropriate camera settings and techniques and cleaning things up in post are all parts of the journey. While I do finish off all of my images in Photoshop and I have a fairly good grasp of many of the tools, 95%+ of my effort is burning and dodging the image, with a bit of healing and cloning, as required.

The great French photographer, Henri Cartier-Bresson once said, "your first 10,000 photographs are your worst". It looks like you are about half-way there...

[Rufus]

Also, I have never shot exclusively with a prime lens, so I am forcing myself to use the 35mm for everything right now

I did exactly this for 3 months as part of my 2019 Project 52 (Q1). Unfortunately the images are no longer available here due changes at Tinypic so I haven't included a link. The following quarter I used only my 135mm prime lens. I now have a better idea of the angles of view of th elenses and the distortion a wide angle can cause. As an example, a wide angle portrait of someone sitting cross legged would accentuate the size of their knees in the foreground.

[MooreDynamic]

The great French photographer, Henri Cartier-Bresson once said, "your first 10,000 photographs are your worst". It looks like you are about half-way there...

I love that quote & I am not half there, unfortunately. I meant to type my goal is to get to 5000, but 10,000 is better - I think I have 707 with the Sony so far.

I know I need to get over the "fear" but I will drive and see good photo opportunities and be too scared to pull over and start taking pictures, I guess I am thinking someone is going to yell & scream at me for taking pictures of landscape lol it's really silly. I because it's not like I am on the beach trying to get candid thong pics or anything so I need to get over my fear.

[DanK]

I'm going to suggest something entirely different.

First, for a newbie, confining yourself to a single prime lens is just a handicap. It's better, IMHO, to be open to all sorts of opportunities when out shooting, and a zoom lens is better for that. I shot with nothing but primes for years, and I see no advantage whatever to this other than the fact that the tend to be lighter and sharper. Other than macro lenses and a nifty fifty, I don't even own any prime lenses now.

Second, and even more important, I wouldn't set a target for a large number of images. Yes, i would suggest shooting freely--when you see something interesting, try a few different kinds of shots to experiment. but a large number of images as such won't be enough to make you a better photographer. What will matter more, in my experience, is studying, practicing in a deliberate and guided way, and getting critiques and advice. The more you think about how you want to compose and image and how you want to postprocess it, the more your practicing will help.

Some years ago, I spent a day with Carl Heilman, who I think is currently the best photographer of the Adirondacks. There were perhaps half a dozen of us with him. It was striking: some of the novices were clicking way before Carl took a single photo. Instead, he walked around each of the sites we visited, looking for interesting scenes and then thinking about how they would look from different positions. I once saw a video in which he took a panorama from the top of one of the mountains. He took a single panorama and packed up. Most of us aren't good enough to trust that a single shot will be enough, but this taught me a lot. What made him successful was how much he thought about each shot, not how many he took. Of course, this isn't the case for things like sports photography, and novices need to take more, but the point still holds: taking more photos, in and of itself, isn't likely to get you very far.

CiC is a great place to help with that process. You can post a few images, ideally with questions, and get all sorts of interesting and useful suggestions. You won't agree with all of them, but that's part of the process. It's why our photographs are different.

Re software: I don't think it matters all that much which of the standard packages you use. They overlap a great deal. All of them will over tonality adjustments, saturation adjustments, sharpening adjustments, etc. What does matter is learning what different types of edits accomplish and then mastering the tools in your package that affect them. IMHO, an effective way to learn is to start with a specific subset of the tools--I usually suggest to people starting with tonality--and study how they affect an image. There are lots of books and online resources that can help guide this process.

[xpatUSA]

Jeremy, could you clarify what assistance you are seeking (other than how to upload images which has been added as postscript)?<>

Are you inviting comments about the composition of the image, the rationale for which you have explained, such as whether the Fibonacci ratio is evident?

Here's the OP image with Golden Ratio (Fibonacci) lines on it, if that's of any help:



As to placement of an irregularly-shaped object onto an intersection, I usually place the center of area (centroid?) there.

[Manfred M]

Jeremy - let me suggest that my views are very similar to Dan's.

First of all, there are two aspects of learning that are critical. The first is to get out there and shoot to improve your skills. When I say "shoot" I also suggest doing so in a careful and considered manner, rather than a rapid fire approach that gives you a number of copies of virtually the same thing. It is far better to get one good image than 100 so-so images. If you are shooting landscapes, get yourself a decent tripod and study what you see on your viewfinder or screen before pressing the shutter release.

Post-processing is also a skill and learning it is critical in creating strong images. Don't make the mistake of doing sloppy work when you are out shooting, thinking you can "get it right in post". The more correct you get things in camera, the better (and easier) your work in post will be.

Study the works of other photographers, especially the ones whose work you like and see how they tackled a subject. Look at the masters from the past; Ansel Adams for landscapes, Edward Weston's still life, Yousef Karsh's portraits and Henri Cartier-Bessson's street photography. The gear that they used to create their compelling work was far simpler and more challenging to work with than your A6000.

Finally the one thing I see quite often as photographers progress:

Step 1 - Beginning photographers will sometimes notice that their images are not as good as they want, so they figure that they need to study "composition" and learn and apply the "rules of composition".

Step 2 - They read the books and watch the videos on composition and apply these "rules" to their own work and in the end find that their work is still not where they want it to be. Blindly trying to apply these rules / guidelines isn't giving them the output that they want and even worse trying to figure out which ones to use doesn't really seem to work. The Fibonacci ratio, Rule of Thirds and Golden Spiral, in the grand scheme of things, usually don't work, regardless of what we read and see. Some of the rules / elements can strengthen and image, but can just as easily ruin it. Composition is only one element of a strong image.

Unfortunately, it takes a deeper understanding of how to make a strong image and that takes time, practice, analysis and reflection. Look at these three key areas to understand what it takes to make a strong image:

1. Technical choices and execution - Colour, Light, Exposure, Sharpness and Photographic Technique. This part is usually the easiest to master.

2. Organization of the elements in the image - reduce and eliminate distractions / distracting elements, use of space and composition. This is challenging as one has to find the best way to balance everything out in the image on is making. It is much more than just composition.

3. Emotional impact of the image - mood, impact, choice of subject matter and imagination. If you do the first two items well, you will have a decent image, but unless you master this aspect of image making, you will never have a great image. This is the part that even the great photographers struggle with.

[xpatUSA]

<> The Fibonacci ratio, Rule of Thirds and Golden Spiral, in the grand scheme of things, usually don't work, regardless of what we read and see. Some of the rules / elements can strengthen and image, but can just as easily ruin it. <>

I find these statements a little too much on the negative and exclusionary side e.g. "usually don't work" or only "Some of the rules" or "regardless of what we read and see". Sorry.

[Manfred M]

I find these statements a little too much on the negative and exclusionary side e.g. "usually don't work" or only "Some of the rules" or "regardless of what we read and see". Sorry.

I don't agree Ted as none of the various "hard" rules are little more than suggestions at best and at worst can be terribly misleading. Design is all about managing trade offs, not adhering to a set of predetermined "rules". Just because the "ancients" discovered some of them doesn't mean they have as wide-spread application as some might like.

I still have a clear memory of sitting in an advanced composition class, where the professor was critiquing our work when one student's work came in for some harsh comments. His defense was "but I used the Rule of Thirds". The professor (rather nicely) suggested that perhaps it did not work in that case...

I know you are fond of the Golden Ratio. I find it is just another constraint that can get in the way of creating a good image.

[xpatUSA]

I don't agree Ted as none of the various "hard" rules are little more than suggestions at best and at worst can be terribly misleading.<>

Manfred, I've never said that they are "hard rules" and I've never suggested that they be followed by rote.

I know you are fond of the Golden Ratio.

That I am. I don't use it all that much ... but given a choice between 0.666 and 0.618 (all other things being equal), I'll probably lean toward the latter. In other words, if there's gonna be a ratio - let it be Divine.

I find it is just another constraint that can get in the way of creating a good image.

It is only a constraint if the Golden Ratio et al are considered to be "hard" rules, which neither of us does.

[xpatUSA]

I still have a clear memory of sitting in an advanced composition class, where the professor was critiquing our work when one student's work came in for some harsh comments. His defense was "but I used the Rule of Thirds". The professor (rather nicely) suggested that perhaps it did not work in that case...

Hello again. I was reminded of your comment while reading an article about B&W photography. The author said:

"So, you can use all the same composition techniques – like the rule of thirds – that you’d use in color photography."

Immediately after that, he posted a shot of a penguin. However, the bird was not on a third (!) as can be seen below:



Not saying the bird was deliberately placed with any rule in mind. Maybe it ended up there after a crop. Maybe the author found the placement pleasing; maybe not.

Posted for interest - not intended as a rebuttal ...