Looking for help / insight regarding my first camera purchase?

[billtils]

A possible compromise at a very low cost would be to buy virtually any inexpensive camera/lens combo and shoot with that for a while. It should be superior in capability to your phone as a camera.]

Depends on the phone Richard, and the difference between what you can get from a high-end phone and a medium to basic digital camera is shrinking by the day. I know of 3 high-end digital camera users who are getting shots from their iPhone 11 PRO Max phones as good as those they get from their cameras.

However, there are lots of factors other than SOOC image quality.

[The Dutchman]

DanK, nothing on here has been pointless to me. I'm actually absorbing most of it and notating it, though it may not look like it! The manual is a common thread on Google. After a while I just began to defer to Apple's auto-edit. Manual might not be a bad idea occasionally to go deeper into the weeds.

Every time I get close things get flipped on their head. These two links have me leaning toward Sony mirrorless again (at least until we or I turn something else up!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMfCDujQywY https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...att-kloskowski

I was one of the 8% who correctly chose the same pic even though I wonder if I'm a little color blind with certain hues. I wish I could attribute it to my discerning eye, but I believe it's due to the fact that I'm not biased yet. The photographer in the 2nd link is light years further along than I am but chose the Sony for the same reasons I initially had in terms of being forward looking.

In addition to the terrific help, thanks for keeping my brain engaged. As much as I'm excited to get my hands on a new camera, it can certainly wait a day or three

[William W]

This probably should be moved to a new thread, as it's far beyond what the OP is addressing. . .

(Post #60)

Dan,

That is one of the best short commentaries / examples of outcome-driven practical pedagogy, I have ever read.

WW

[The Dutchman]

Think how helpful the info will be if I'm still at it in 3 months, or 3 years for that matter! If you were out shooting w/ me you might think the Canon EOS M50 would be a perfect fit aside from the cheap, plasticy feel (I'll lay my hands on it tomorrow if we're still allowed to touch things in stores). It sounds like a Tesla in the sense that you buy a Tesla for the technology, not because it's the most well made vehicle. Blurs a little at the edges, not perfect in low light but much more going right than wrong.

The EOS M50 should be fun and easy like a smart phone, but I'll still have to invest in learning how to take good photos, post-process etc. $699 including 15-45 and 55-200 lenses. For another $79.99 I can get Photoshop Elements 2020 (is this worth it?!). If I'd been at this a while I'd get the Sony a7R II. Some of the M50s competitors look like you'd need dainty, little girl hands to hold and manipulate them. This looks like it will fit just about right!

PS I talked about going to gallery overnight, which is insane, BUT brings the rest of the discussion into focus. So you can put that on me, but like I said, it's been an amazing help and exactly what I needed to hear!

[The Dutchman]

Thanks again! It feels like Christmas morning here. iPhone Xs and whatever I upgrade to in a year or two will still work well with my VICM shots. G2G. I've decided on Photoshop for $9.99 p/mo when the time comes. It's too bad I didn't buy a gaming computer a couple years ago. This is Intel Core i5, also has Nividia GeForce MX150 w/ 2GB VRAM, 8GB memory, and a 256 GB SSD. It may work. I'll be there when Best Buy opens in a few hours.

[xpatUSA]

Thanks again! It feels like Christmas morning here. iPhone Xs and whatever I upgrade to in a year or two will still work well with my VICM shots.

What?

VICM (citrullinated and MMP degraded vimentin fragment) biomarker?

input common mode voltage?

vehicle integration or interface control module?

https://www.startpage.com/do/search?...ery=%22VICM%22

Sorry, DM, I'm getting too old for obscure acronyms ,,,

[The Dutchman]

VERY Intentional Camera Movement. More Van Gogh than subtle impressionist. I have a few on My Story until 8:30 or so (when I post them), but they're also further down my Instagram page as well. t_rexpics .

Well, no one's told me how stupid my choice of camera is (purchasing in a couple hours). I'll take that as a good sign! Over and out. Any more suggestions may destroy my psyche as I'm logging off until post-purchase.

[rpcrowe]

IMO - the most important aspect of photography is seeing and composing the image... That is where good photographers are separated from mundane shutter clickers!

Anyone can be taught how to expose and focus but, everyone cannot be taught to recognize and capture high quality images.

[xpatUSA]

IMO - the most important aspect of photography is seeing and composing the image... That is where good photographers are separated from mundane shutter clickers!

Anyone can be taught how to expose and focus but, everyone cannot be taught to recognize and capture high quality images.

And yet perhaps the only photographic image quality Standard fails to mention "seeing" or composition ...

https://www.imatest.com/solutions/cpiq/
.

[rpcrowe]

There are tech-heads and there are photographers... Occasionally these two ideals will morph into a single person.

IMO, anyone with a half functioning brain can be taught to choose correct exposure and correct focus but, not everyone who has acquired these skills will produce good imagery.

Correct imagery perhaps but, unless seasoned by a good bit of artistic ability... dull and uninspiring images without artistic input.

The difference is not black and white... Most aspiring photographers have a modicum of artistic ability but, that ability is still the Holy Grail in producing top-line imagery...

Luckily, today's equipment will help aspiring photographers who have artistic ability but, little technical expertise, bridge the technology gap.

[The Dutchman]

I would recommend the Canon EOS M50 to someone buying their first camera. Very easy to use, but I'm barely scratching the surface. I have Adobe Creative Cloud for $9.99 p/mo. Initially, I didn't like the color but a quick auto-edit in Lightroom has remedied that. I generally increase clarity and sharpness, but I've had a few where I've reduced clarity as well

[Manfred M]

I would recommend the Canon EOS M50 to someone buying their first camera. Very easy to use, but I'm barely scratching the surface. I have Adobe Creative Cloud for $9.99 p/mo. Initially, I didn't like the color but a quick auto-edit in Lightroom has remedied that. I generally increase clarity and sharpness, but I've had a few where I've reduced clarity as well

Sounds like a good start. I would suggest that you start posting to get feedback on your shots. That is probably a very good way to learn and improve.

[DanK]

but a quick auto-edit in Lightroom has remedied that. I generally increase clarity and sharpness, but I've had a few where I've reduced clarity as well

My advice: If you want to develop serious skills in postprocessing, you will have to be more systematic. Jumping from one adjustment to the next won't do it. The order of operations in the LR develop panel is a very good way to start. First, learn what the histogram means--use the tutorials on this site, https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/ph...-tutorials.htm. If you don't understand the histogram, you can't edit tonality competently. Then learn how to use the tonality adjustments in the basic section of the develop panel: the overall brightness adjustment, the sliders for shadows, highlights, etc. The curve tool is in the next block down, but it is perhaps the most important and flexible tonality control. This will take some time. Then move on.

[xpatUSA]

Initially, I didn't like the color but a quick auto-edit in Lightroom has remedied that.

Quite a good way to learn about color adjustment.

Please pardon the sarcasm ...

[Manfred M]

+1 to Dan's comments.

Everyone that I know who creates great images has developed a strong and consistent workflow when doing their edits. While the specifics will vary from image to image, you will develop a reliance on the tools that meet your needs. You should have a plan on what you want to correct in an image.

Most editors follow a workflow that starts with global adjustments (i.e. ones that impact the entire image). Colour temperature, contrast, sharpness are often global attributes.

The second area that editors will work on are area adjustment; in a landscape, these would be the sky or the water. In a portrait, this could be the background or the subject's clothing.

The final area that needs to be worked are the details; these small but important areas of the image that need to be brought out or subdued.

Most people start out with the global changes and as their eye develops, they will start diving into area edits and finally local changes.

[rpcrowe]

AMEN to Manfred's comments above...

I would like to add that to facilitate working in the "second" and "final" areas, as Manfred outlines above, one needs to have a good handle on selection methods in whatever editing program is being used. This is easier with some programs than with others...

For my uses, although I am quite capable in making selections of specific areas using the tools provided in Photoshop (I don't use LR), it is often easier for me to make the area selections using the Control Points within the NIK Software suite.

In this case, I primarily use the Viveza section of NIK software which will allow me to select small to large areas of my image and apply many corrections. I almost never use NIK for global corrections but, frequently use it for area corrections. It is quicker (for me) than trying to select the areas and make corrections using Photoshop.

There is a plethora of YouTube instructional videos available.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...selection+tool
I like Robin Whalley's videos and also have several of his books on NIK in Kindle eBook format
https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=nik+col...nb_sb_ss_i_9_4


If NIK doesn't work (although most of the time the results are satisfactory) I will fall back on Photoshop to make the selections and the area edits.

NOTE: I almost never use the presets offered by sections of the NIK Software other than Viveza...

[xpatUSA]

I would suggest that you start posting to get feedback on your shots.

It would also help us if your images are posted complete with EXIF and any other embedded meta-data such as XMP. Even better help would be given if the original image as-shot is made available as well your post-processed masterpiece. Saves an awful lot of guesswork or misunderstanding ...

[rpcrowe]

Agree with Ted above... However, please do not get disappointed with any negative comments. Generally, the criticism on this site is very polite and constructive. I have learned more from constructive critiques than from any flowery atta-boys...

[The Dutchman]

Thanks again for your help. My Canon EOS M50 has turned out to be a damn fine purchase. $699 for the 2 lens kit bought 4-6 weeks ago.

Regrettably, after crushing it on Instagram for several months they accused me of paying for follows and likes, and blocked me for a week. I permanently deleted my account, I swear Satan is behind the curtain @ Facebook, and started Flickr and EyeEm accounts last night.

I don't expect you to look at my account until I post a few edited pics for contests or reviews but my Flickr URL is as follows (me thinks): https://www.flickr.com/photos/189496...h/50165183187/ . Not sure why it doesn't include Rich Hardy?

It was pretty rad to be flying through shutter speed, aperture and iso to keep the light just right this past Monday night for the first time. I'll probably post a 3,000 Kelvin pic later today. I used to run XC neck in neck with a Kelvin; I love saying that name lol. Hopefully I can submit a pic or two in the next few days. Cheers!

[The Dutchman]

Re: PROCESSING ?! I began with the Canon app and Lightroom. I didn't realize until 2-3 weeks ago that I needed to USB my camera into my laptop to upload my photos into Bridge and Camera Raw.

Taking some beautiful night shots, noticing grain then realizing my camera was shooting at 1600-6400 ISO was enough to force me onto the path of becoming a real photographer. My new thing is to get my images as close as possible to the real thing that I don't have to post-process very much.

Some edits fall into place immediately, but others have forced me to become more systematic. Of course, there have been shots that have a ton of potential that I've had to take into Photoshop unsuccessfully. For example, beautiful ducks & geese but nasty water I can't quite seem to fix.

It's kind of a relief to be through w/ Instagram, adding 1,000 supporters a month is stressful, but I'll really miss my friends on there. The question "do you want to be a Kardashian, or a photographer/artist" has been resolved. Thanks again!, I'll try to be a little more active/helpful on here.

PS - I've talked to pros who are considering the Canon EOS M50 a their back up camera. Super super happy with it. I'm pretty sure it will be quite a while before I've exhausted it's potential. The 2 lens kit w/ the 55-200mm lens is a must