rechargeable AA batteries

[Tronhard]

Hi Manfred:

I agree that Eneloop batteries have been around for a while, and I appreciate with your vast experience you may find this old hat, but I suspect there may be the odd other member of the forum for whom this is useful.

[Manfred M]

Hi Manfred:

I agree that Eneloop batteries have been around for a while, and I appreciate with your vast experience you may find this old hat, but I suspect there may be the odd other member of the forum for whom this is useful.

Agreed - I mentioned the difference between the Maha and Panasonic batteries in post #3.

Both are well-known, reliable brands; the important part are the trade offs in the two different designs.

[Tronhard]

What I found interesting and perhaps relevant in the video was the fact that there are 3 different types of Eneloop batteries with difference cycle and recharge profiles:

Here is a quote from the transcript:
"You'll find three classes of Eneloop batteries, standard, lite, and pro. I stick with the standard just because they do what I need for the types of devices that I run. Lite Eneloops have a much lower capacity than the standard ones, but they're rated for more recharge cycles. They're ideal for alarm clocks and other things that don't require a lot of power. Pro Eneloops have higher capacity and hold their charge longer but can only endure around 500 recharging cycles. Those batteries however might deliver the recycle performance that you want if you're using them in a flash. Eneloops are widely available, they're competitively priced with other rechargeables, so if you use a lot of AA rechargeables, I highly recommend giving these a look. "

This is what I find interesting because they offer a range of solutions not offered by conventional rechargeables. I have used the standard ones for flash and found them effective, but again I don't need a ferociously fast recycle time. The Pro versions, while having a lesser lifespan may work for those who need the speed of cycling and power.

[Manfred M]

What I found interesting and perhaps relevant in the video was the fact that there are 3 different types of Eneloop batteries with difference cycle and recharge profiles:

Here is a quote from the transcript:
"You'll find three classes of Eneloop batteries, standard, lite, and pro. I stick with the standard just because they do what I need for the types of devices that I run. Lite Eneloops have a much lower capacity than the standard ones, but they're rated for more recharge cycles. They're ideal for alarm clocks and other things that don't require a lot of power. Pro Eneloops have higher capacity and hold their charge longer but can only endure around 500 recharging cycles. Those batteries however might deliver the recycle performance that you want if you're using them in a flash. Eneloops are widely available, they're competitively priced with other rechargeables, so if you use a lot of AA rechargeables, I highly recommend giving these a look. "

This is what I find interesting because they offer a range of solutions not offered by conventional rechargeables. I have used the standard ones for flash and found them effective, but again I don't need a ferociously fast recycle time. The Pro versions, while having a lesser lifespan may work for those who need the speed of cycling and power.

Panasonic has a much larger advertising budget than Maha does.

https://mahaenergy.com/powerex-pro/

[Tronhard]

Well, either way, at least those who have an interest will now know of the technology and that there are choices! Certainly they seem to beat the rechargeables from the best known brands and in NZ, at least, they are no more expensive.

In NZ we only get the Panasonic brand, so availability of one or both brands may vary widely around the world.

[Manfred M]

Well, either way, at least those who have an interest will now know of the technology and that there are choices! Certainly they seem to beat the rechargeables from the best known brands and in NZ, at least, they are no more expensive.

In NZ we only get the Panasonic brand, so availability of one or both brands may vary widely around the world.

According to the Maha website some company called Photoshack, near Auckland, sells them:

https://www.photoshack.co.nz/brand/Powerex

[DanK]

PowerEx batteries have a higher power density, but do self-discharge more quickly, but also have a much shorter charge cycle.

Maybe. As I noted in the OP, this was what I thought the tradeoff was some years ago, when I last bought batteries (Maha Powerex). However, it's not clear to me that this is still true. Here's what Powerex says about their current Pro line:

The Powerex PRO is a low self-discharge battery

See https://mahaenergy.com/powerex-pro/.

[Hevii Guy]

At the risk of offending the great many Brand Name fan boys and girls here, a viable, comparable and much less-costly alternative to the Eneloop Pro batteries are the IKEA "Lada 2450" batteries.

[DanK]

The information isn’t in the slightest offensive. Disparaging others as fanboys is.


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[xpatUSA]

<snip> ... A viable, comparable and much less-costly alternative to the Eneloop Pro batteries are the IKEA "Lada 2450" batteries.

Might as well mention my Sanyo HR-3UTGA 'eneloops' min. 1,900 mAh ...

I've also got an unopened pack of Energizer 'Power Plus' which keep their charge for a whole year (wow).

Should clarify matters of viability even further, eh?

[Manfred M]

At the risk of offending the great many Brand Name fan boys and girls here, a viable, comparable and much less-costly alternative to the Eneloop Pro batteries are the IKEA "Lada 2450" batteries.

"Brand name fan boys" tend to be that way because they have learned the hard way that off brand equipment is sometimes not as reliable as brand name. If I am on location shooting out in the middle of no where, I don't take chances.

I've had off-brand memory cards fail and off brand batteries fail. I now stick to SanDisk and Lexar cards (no failures ever) and PowerEx batteries (again no failures). The memory cards and batteries that failed were "branded" but when I looked into both a bit further, they were re-badged third party products.

Talk to people that make their living this way, they tend to have the same view that I do.

[xpatUSA]

I just played with my Metz 20 C-2.

Panasonic Eneloop Pro: time to 'light ON' on power-up 4-1/2 minutes. Time to recycle after full discharge 1-1/2 min.

Off-brand Alkaline AA: time to 'light ON' on power-up 1-1/2 minutes. Time to recycle after full discharge 1/2 min.

For what it's worth, which ain't much ...

[Manfred M]

I just played with my Metz 20 C-2.

Panasonic Eneloop Pro: time to 'light ON' on power-up 4-1/2 minutes. Time to recycle after full discharge 1-1/2 min.

Off-brand Alkaline AA: time to 'light ON' on power-up 1-1/2 minutes. Time to recycle after full discharge 1/2 min.

For what it's worth, which ain't much ...

Wow! That is super slow recycle time, In the case of my SB-900 power on cycle time with alkaline batteries is in the order of a couple of seconds and full-power recycle is about 3-1/2 seconds

[xpatUSA]

Wow! That is super slow recycle time, In the case of my SB-900 power on cycle time with alkaline batteries is in the order of a couple of seconds and full-power recycle is about 3-1/2 seconds

Yes, I was a little surprised myself, having hardly ever used full power on the camera. With the lower power settings that I use for table-top work, it usually re-cycles in less than 8 secs per the manual.

[bralk]

At the risk of offending the great many Brand Name fan boys and girls here, a viable, comparable and much less-costly alternative to the Eneloop Pro batteries are the IKEA "Lada 2450" batteries.

Several tests show that they are identical. Produced at the old Sanyo plant, now owned by Panasonic.
Try googling "Enneloop Ikea Ladda"

[Manfred M]

Several tests show that they are identical. Produced at the old Sanyo plant, now owned by Panasonic.
Try googling "Enneloop Ikea Ladda"

That may be true now and in the past, but the problem with all third party products is that there is no guarantee that this practice will continue. Contracts like the one in question tend to be fixed time; often a two or three yeas, but rarely more than five. If a new supplier comes in at some point, then you may not be getting the product from the manufacturer that you hope for.

The other issue with these private label products is that while they may be manufactured by an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), you don't know the product spec. Private label products are generally sold based on the price being lower than the OEM product. The only way that this can be achieved is to use less expensive materials or lower product specs (i.e. more manufacturing tolerance) in the private label brand. It doesn't matter where the product is made if the quality is lower or the service life is shorter or the failure rate is higher.

How do I know this? I was a manufacturing manager at two different OEM companies that also had a contract manufacturing private label business.

You do get what you have paid for and if you are getting something for a lower price, there is a reason for that...

[William W]

Several tests show that they are identical. Produced at the old Sanyo plant, now owned by Panasonic.
Try googling "Enneloop Ikea Ladda"

Relevant to Manfred's second point: "The other issue with these private label products is that while they may be manufactured by an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), you don't know the product spec."

I am not keen on the words "tests show" and "identical". I've poured through lots of the www commentary on this topic and haven't seen any exhaustive test which comes close to showing "identical".

If you have, please cite them.

WW

[DanK]

Several tests show that they are identical. Produced at the old Sanyo plant, now owned by Panasonic.
Try googling "Enneloop Ikea Ladda"

There are many postings on the web saying that these are produced in the same plant. I haven't seen any tests or product specs. Non-OEM products are sometimes just rebranded versions of the OEM products, but they are sometimes built to different specs.

In any case, going back to the OP, Eneloops aren't the battery of choice for rapid recycling of a flash. They are a good choice if you want the charge to remain for a long time when the battery isn't in use.

I decided that I would go with 2850mAh Ansmanns, which I used many years ago, and just bought two sets of four. I didn't find test results for them either, but a number of photographers have posted that their experience is that Ansmanns recycle relatively quickly.

[CP140]

I've had good luck with the Maha/Powerex batteries... not in photography uses, but rather in hand held Amateur radios...

[DanK]

I've had good luck with the Maha/Powerex batteries... not in photography uses, but rather in hand held Amateur radios...

The use in flashes is a different matter because recycle time is so important. There used to be both low-self-discharge and other Powerex batteries, and I had both, the latter for flashes. They may still, but I didn't find both when I looked this time, so I bought Ansmann instead, which were recommended to me years ago by macro photographers who wanted fast recylcing times to capture stacks of bug shots.