Beauty Dish

[Digital]

I am thinking of adding a Beauty Dish for use with my speedlights. I am finding that I am ignorant on this subject.
Can anyone enlighten me?

Bruce

[xpatUSA]

I am thinking of adding a Beauty Dish for use with my speedlights. I am finding that I am ignorant on this subject.
Can anyone enlighten me?

Bruce

I had no idea what a Beauty Dish is, so I googled <"Beauty Dish" flash photography> and got these:

https://improvephotography.com/11001...a-beauty-dish/

https://improvephotography.com/flash...aphy-basics-8/

Hope they are enlightening ...

[Digital]

Ted, they are very enlightening.
Thanks.

Bruce

[Manfred M]

I do use a 22" white beauty dish and it does cast a very attractive light, but when I shoot with one, I usually have the edge of it almost in frame in order to maximize the light quality. They are most effective when used on a light stand with a boom, so unless you plan to go that route, they are rather limiting.

While you can buy light soft boxes and other similar light modifiers for speedlights, I would not recommend going that route because these modifiers are quite inefficient and speedlights generally do not push out enough power to use them at effective apertures.

Umbrellas tend to be the most appropriate modifiers for speedlights.

[Digital]

Manfred, thanks for the information. Based on your information, I will forego a Beauty Dish at this time.

Bruce

[Chataignier]

Beauty dishes are fine, but you need to keep in mind the general rule that they should not be much further from the subject than their diameter. That means REALLY close unless you have a huge one. Often just about in shot as Manfred says.

[William W]

. . . While you can buy light soft boxes and other similar light modifiers for speedlights, I would not recommend going that route because these modifiers are quite inefficient and speedlights generally do not push out enough power to use them at effective apertures.

Umbrellas tend to be the most appropriate modifiers for speedlights.

Agree. Especially considering Bruce’s previous posts on the topic of building his Portraiture Lighting Gear.

Colin Southern, (who used to be an active member here) used modifies other than Umbrellas with his Speedlites for Portraiture, I’ve seen the Portraiture set-up: he used a bunch of up to four (4) Speedlites inside a Soft Box or similar Modifier. You really do need that amount of light power to work efficiently.

I have both Silver and Gold Umbrellas, and typically use only one Speedlite (i.e. not two), that suits me for several reasons, the major of which is my Portraiture has become over the years somewhat more reportage and/or for the Client’s family history.

Bruce, from what you’ve asked previously and as I understand your goals, I think you should stick with Umbrellas, at the moment.

WW

Addendum:

Controlled Lighting Sample in situ (i.e. NOT Studio Portraiture - KISS Theory)

EOS 5D Series; 85mm Lens, full frame crop edges only to square format; One Speedlite; Off Camera Cord; Silver brolly at Camera Lefthand held about 400mm above height of Subject.



Image © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2020 WMW 1965~1996

[rpcrowe]

A beauty dish can produce some very flattering lighting for female portraiture, hence the "beauty dish" name. I purchased a used 27 inch dish which produces a soft light but, a more specular light than a softbox.

I haven't used it all that much because most of my shooting has been done on location and it is difficult to transport a large modifier (although there are folding models available) and even more difficult to transport a tall stand and possibly a boom.

My favorite (actually my only use) use for a beauty dish has been for butterfly lighting (also called Paramount or clam-shell lighting) in which the beauty dish is positioned in line with the camera and from higher than the camera pointed straight the subject at about a 45 degree angle down at the subject's face. The light needs to be quite close to the subject to result in flattering lighting; thus the need for a boom to keep the support out of the camera's view. If the beauty dish is further from the subject than approximately the diameter of the dish - the light becomes somewhat harsh.

Generally, the beauty dish will result in a butterfly shaped shadow beneath the subject's nose which is where the term butterfly lighting originates. The beauty dish is a shallow circular dish shaped modifier with the light shooting through an opening at the back of the dish towards the subject. However, the light hits a baffle which sends it back to reflect off the shallow dish and then at the model.

Usually, there is a second light source from lower which mitigates the shadow thrown by the beauty dish. This can either be another light or a reflector. The combination of the beauty dish pointing down from above at about 45 degrees and the second light source, usually pointing up at about a 45 degree angle gives the setup its "clam-shell" name.

The third nickname for this type of lighting setup comes from the fact that it was often used in the 1940's and 1950's for poster shots of actresses by Paramount Motion Picture Company. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...-D0yLRKpjH5VxM

However, as Manfred mentions, both beauty dishes and soft boxes are not quite suited for hotshoe flashes because they these flashes are not powerful enough and because the angle of light they produce is too narrow and too specular. IMO umbrellas are the most economical and the best modifiers for hotshoe flashes.

I personally prefer shoot through umbrellas that have a black baffle on the back (the open side) which prevents light from bouncing all over the room in which you are shooting and therefore giving you more control over the light. The baffle mitigates the primary fault of an umbrella, lack of control...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Phottix-40-...0AAOSwaYdfJVKB

The larger the light source the softer the light. However. a small hotshoe flash doesn't throw enough light to fill a really large umbrella.

[Manfred M]

I’ve seen the Portraiture set-up: he used a bunch of up to four (4) Speedlites inside a Soft Box or similar Modifier. You really do need that amount of light power to work efficiently.

Bill - I know some photographers that do that as well, but when I look at the cost of four higher power speedlights versus what even high end (ProPhoto or Elinchrom) studio lights run at, I can't justify that outlay for the speedlights.

[rpcrowe]

Bill - I know some photographers that do that as well, but when I look at the cost of four higher power speedlights versus what even high end (ProPhoto or Elinchrom) studio lights run at, I can't justify that outlay for the speedlights.

There is/was a website (The Strobist) which touted the advantages of using speedlights for portraiture. They had some really complicated setups, sometimes using three and even four speedlights to fill a softbox or a umbrella.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Photograp...20-%20Copy.jpg

I owned several hotshoe flashes and I purchased the four cold shoe rig because I wanted more power for surfing shots than I could get from a single hotshoe flash. I now use my Flashpoint 360 with a high performance reflector to concentrate the light for that purpose.

IMO, the only rationale for using hotshoe flashes was for outdoor use in the days before affordably priced battery operated HSS capable studio type flashes. There was absolutely no reason, price or otherwise, to shoot portraits with hotshoe flash indoors unless a single hotshoe flash was all you had. Even the el-cheapo Chinese A/C powered studio strobes would beat the pants off the most expensive hotshoe flash combination for portrait work.

The price of several hotshoe flashes (even Godox models) equals or exceeds the price of either a moderately priced studio flash for indoor use or a flash like the Flashpoint/Godox 360 https://www.adorama.com/fplfsl360cob...ef=productPage for outdoor use...

There are now better flashes for outdoor portraiture than the 360 (some even have modeling lights) but I absolutely love my 360 and have it mounted on a three wheeled push golf cart for outdoor portraiture...

BTW: I cover the front of my beauty dish with a translucent diffuser sock to provide softer light...

Hopefully, I will live long enough to resume portrait shooting

[Digital]

Thanks for the information David, Bill Manfred, and Richard.
In the 90's I owned some Elinchrome monolights (it was a kit). I loved those lights. Unfortunately, I sold them.
I plan to purchase some more Elinchrome monolights when I can afford them.

Bruce