Incident Metering

[xpatUSA]

I just looked up the specs for my Canon 5D Mark IV. On the German site, it says EV 0-20 for evaluative metering and doesn't mention the others. On the US site, it says EV 0-20 as a general statement, with no mention of it's applying to one or more metering modes.

I'm not sure what the post is implying but a Hasselblad H6D guide page goes into a bit more detail than that:

Metering options are: Spot (diameter 7.5 mm), Centre Weighted, and Centre Spot. Metering range at f/2.8 and ISO100: Spot: EV2 to 21, Centre-weighted: EV1 to 21, Centre Spot: EV1 to 21.

Another search revealed for the Sony a100: EV1 to 20 unspecified mode, EV4 to 20 for Spot.

For the Sony a700: "Metering range is 0 EV to +20 EV for Multi-segment and Center-Weighted, and +2 EV to +20 EV for Spot."

It does seem that, in general, the Spot metering range is less than Matrix or Center-weighted by 1 to 3 EV.

Maybe Canon and Sigma are keeping it simple for the punters, unlike Nikon ...

... I wonder what camera Bruce used?

[Digital]

Ted, Nikon D300

Bruce

[xpatUSA]

Ted, Nikon D300

Bruce

Thanks Bruce.

Nikon D300S Review - D300S Exposure. ... Metering range is specified at 0 to 20 EV in Matrix or Center-Weighted, and 2 to 20 EV in Spot metering mode.

Looks like the D300 Spot's not quite so hot in the shadows either. I'd still use it though. Not sure I ever meter shadows anyway.

[DanK]

Maybe Canon and Sigma are keeping it simple for the punters, unlike Nikon ...

It's possible. Perhaps the very small area provides insufficient current for a reliable reading at levels below 2 EV, and if so, it seems possible that this does or doesn't affect all brands.

In practice, having used a spot meter a lot of the time since 1970, I've never found this a limitation. I'm not sure I've ever used it in really dark settings. In night photography, I don't entirely trust any metering system. I try a first approximation and then adjust based on the histogram. If it's really dark, I often set the ISO to 6400, use matrix metering, and then adjust. Then I change ISO to 100 and change seconds to minutes (it's a fairly close approximation). I don't recall ever doing this exercise with spot metering. if I wanted to exclude an area, I would probably use the larger-area "partial" metering that Canon has.

[Digital]

Here is the photo I took. This is a HDR image.
Bruce

[xpatUSA]

It's possible. Perhaps the very small area provides insufficient current for a reliable reading at levels below 2 EV, and if so, it seems possible that this does or doesn't affect all brands.

Perhaps.

-Dan and Bruce, with reference to the low end of the metering range:

https://www.astro-landscapes.com/metering/

https://www.astro-landscapes.com/met...non-eos-5ds-r/

https://www.astro-landscapes.com/met...ked-questions/

The links helped me to understand low-light metering performance even though it didn't address Spot metering specifically.

The test-method looked pretty good to my pedantic eye.

I'm about done on this sub-topic unless anyone has something further to discuss.

[Manfred M]

I guess I should stick to my Sekonic L-358 which offers both incident and reflective metering that ranges from EV-2 to EV 22.9, according to the spec sheet. Repeatability accuracy is ± 0.1 EV or better

The only downside for reflective metering is that the heads have a set measuring range of 54° with the standard head and 1° with the spot metering head.

[xpatUSA]

Here is the photo I took. This is a HDR image.
Bruce

Thanks for posting it! With reference to spot-metering and the Kodak table I published earlier -I see suitable areas for metering-

The bright part of the white cloud.
The dark window-pane depending on your Nikon spot-size.
The shaded foliage at middle of camera-left.
The sunlit grass.
The roof.
The gray asphalt.
The big white arrow.

I could guess a reasonable EC for most of those -except perhaps the roof and the gray asphalt.

Refer to the Kodak chart and try it yourself ...

Good luck with the spot-metering mode!

[Digital]

Incident reading.



Camera meter reading

[xpatUSA]

Incident reading.

Slightly more detail contrast in the wall for the previous HDR image, as one might expect.

Incident image certainly good enough for Government Work, Bruce.

[Manfred M]

Bruce - I don't see any exposure issues in this image, but rather a lighting issue.

To quote Ansel Adams; "Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships".





Just as it was in the "old days" in the wet darkroom, dodging and burning are the key methods for attacking this issue. The metering method really doesn't matter that much, so long as there is enough data in the capture to work with.

[Digital]

Manfred, I agree with you about the lighting. This image was taken on a very sunny day in mid afternoon. I was not trying to get an award winning shot. This, as you know, was a test. More of a test for the light meter than the camera's meter.

Bruce

[Manfred M]

Manfred, I agree with you about the lighting. This image was taken on a very sunny day in mid afternoon. I was not trying to get an award winning shot. This, a you know, was a test. More of a test for the light meter than the camera's meter.

Bruce

Bruce - I know some excellent photographers who have never used anything other than matrix metering. I know a few others that use spot metering exclusively. Some use some form of automation (program, aperture priority or shutter priority) for the bulk or their work while others continue to shoot on manual, the same as they did 50 years ago with their film cameras.

I know others in a studio setting that get their exposures through trial and error, assisted by the camera histogram, whereas others who use an incident light (flash meter). I will sometimes use trial and error in single active light situations and always try using an incident flash meter when doing multiple active light setups.

I generally only use incident metering for studio work and when doing on location work where I mix studio flash and ambient light. I sometimes use a mix of reflective and incident metering, especially in the studio where I am looking for specific light drop off in the background.

You will find some tools and approaches that give you a comfort level to get the results that you are looking for. In the end, that is all that really matters.

[Stagecoach]

I have recently had a play with Nikons 'Highlight Protected Metering' on the Z6 and can certainly see where this may be a bonus in some of my sports and action shooting scenarios that I usually use standard Matrix for.

[dje]

I have recently had a play with Nikons 'Highlight Protected Metering' on the Z6 and can certainly see where this may be a bonus in some of my sports and action shooting scenarios that I usually use standard Matrix for.

Yes that's an interesting development. Some of the latest Sony cameras have that mode too, but alas not my A7
It could be handy on a cloudy day where it is very easy to blow out the sky.

Grahame does it have any associated settings or is it just ON or OFF?

Dave

[Stagecoach]

Yes that's an interesting development. Some of the latest Sony cameras have that mode too, but alas not my A7
It could be handy on a cloudy day where it is very easy to blow out the sky.

Grahame does it have any associated settings or is it just ON or OFF?

Dave

It's just on or off Dave.

As an example of how its working;

If I have a scene of 50% green trees and 50% bright sky both 'Matrix' and 'Highlight Protect' expose roughly the same, good enough.

If I reframe to 75% green trees and 25% bright sky 'Matrix' will wash out (and likely clip) the sky but in 'Highlight Protect' the sky will not wash out and the trees easily lifted in post.

This I see as being most usefull when you do not have time to alter from +EC to -EC when panning/tracking a subject with changing light direction and background.

[William W]

. . . Incident image certainly good enough for Government Work, Bruce.

True, on the other hand, the image based on the camera's TTL Meter reading is also more than acceptable and, in the raw, would lend itself to excellent post production results.

ergo: on the discussion topic of "(Hand Held) Incident vs. (In Camera TTL) Reflected Metering Reading, which one do I choose" - what I see is another strike of evidence for not bothering with the Hand Held Incident Meter because modern TTL Meters are pretty smart, especially so if the Photographer is halfway competent in understanding the information being provided: and if it's a really important shot, then Exposure Bracket.

WW

[xpatUSA]

on the discussion topic of "(Hand Held) Incident vs. (In Camera TTL) Reflected Metering Reading, which one do I choose" - what I see is another strike of evidence for not bothering with the Hand Held Incident Meter because modern TTL Meters are pretty smart, especially so if the Photographer is halfway competent in understanding the information being provided: and if it's a really important shot, then Exposure Bracket.

Agreed, Bill, and -as I said in post #17-: "I tried incident-metering for a while and it does work but I am too lazy to carry more than just a camera ...".

An excellent point about "understanding the information being provided"!

As Manfred pointed out, the likes of Sekonic do have a much wider metering range than the camera, which could be handy under certain lighting conditions.

Stay well.

[Manfred M]

True, on the other hand, the image based on the camera's TTL Meter reading is also more than acceptable and, in the raw, would lend itself to excellent post production results.

ergo: on the discussion topic of "(Hand Held) Incident vs. (In Camera TTL) Reflected Metering Reading, which one do I choose" - what I see is another strike of evidence for not bothering with the Hand Held Incident Meter because modern TTL Meters are pretty smart, especially so if the Photographer is halfway competent in understanding the information being provided: and if it's a really important shot, then Exposure Bracket.

WW

I agree 100% Bill. In fact they only time I generally use my incident meter is if studio flash (or manual flash) is being used.

I don't mind setting up a single studio flash using trial and error, but multiple flash setups are a lot faster and more precise when done with a flash meter.

[Digital]

Thanks for posting it! With reference to spot-metering and the Kodak table I published earlier -I see suitable areas for metering-

The bright part of the white cloud.
The dark window-pane depending on your Nikon spot-size.
The shaded foliage at middle of camera-left.
The sunlit grass.
The roof.
The gray asphalt.
The big white arrow.

I could guess a reasonable EC for most of those -except perhaps the roof and the gray asphalt.

Refer to the Kodak chart and try it yourself ...

Good luck with the spot-metering mode!

Ted, I appreciate the suggestions; however I am confused about spot metering the shaded areas. If I spot meter these areas, won't I take a chance of blowing the highlights.

Bruce