Slight anxiety about 500mm f4

[wooster]

Hi all,

I just ordered a Canon 500mm f4L IS II lens ( used ) for birds, and now I'm panicking about the weight. Is it really such a beast? I am due to retire and thought I needed to get one now or never but I'm conscious of the fact that as I'm knocking on a bit, the body is decaying fast.

I guess I can always sell it on in a yera or two if it's too ambitious and also I have a return window which I don't feel bad about taking advantage of with used gear.

I'm planning to use it in the garden a lot on a tripod which should be fine, and then down in Oare Marshes and other RSPB places

Anyway, I'm wondering how you guys who have this carry yours? I thought I'd take it off the tripod and put it in something like a Glass Limo when moving from site to site and then use a gimbal so the actual shooting wouldn't be a problem.

Any tips for aging photographers?

Thank you

[Geoff F]

I use a Sigma 150-600 Sport lens and I am also in the same age group. So what I do is to use a ball head on my tripod but with the tension lightly set. That means I can still swing the lens around, within reason, but the downward weight is taken by the tripod.

[wooster]

Hi Geoff. Yes that sounds good. My gimbal should take care of the actual shooting strain, but I'm not looking forward to lugging it around from site to site

Time will tell

[Tronhard]

I just turned 68, and I have several very heavy units, including the Canon EF 100-400L (sometimes with extender), EF 28-300 L(both Metal bodied lenses) and the Sigma 150-600 C lens. They are often mounted on EOS 5 or 7 series bodies with battery grips and they can weigh a bit - and I usually carry two such setups.

We all do activities to enhance our photographic performance, and train to do the PP on our software. It makes sense to me to also train to be able to carry and use the gear as effortlessly as possible. The best cameras are useless if we leave them at home because they are too heavy, and having a large investment in such gear I am determined to use it. I usually carry a couple of bodies with grips and lenses attached when I go out to shoot and that can be very fatiguing if one is not trained for it.

So, I do exercise and weight training to be able to handle these units without fatigue or discomfort. Each week I do at least 4 days of a mix of hour-long Pump classes (with 20kg weights), STEP, New Body (using lighter 3kg weights) and cycling. Making an effort to stay fit not only benefits my photography through strength and endurance to help me to carry and control the cameras, but it helps me retain muscle mass, strengthens bones and connective tissue, enhances endurance, brain function, and hopefully will make me live longer, feel younger and have more ability to enjoy my time.

[William W]

I've used the original 500/4 IS USM often, (for Sport, I don't shoot birds).

I agree with keeping fit and active, I'll add-

Many Photographers are fatigued by the weight of lenses and cameras, solely because they carry and use the gear, inefficiently, moreover, often incorrectly.

Just get a good system of carriage arranged and when shooting ensure two things:

> you are taking the absolute minium weight of the rig on your body
> your body is poised in a relaxed position

I have countless photos of Photographers not conforming to those two rules.

WW

[Tronhard]

I agree with Bill, but I would expand on his points about carrying, if I may be so bold.

Unless you use some kind of trundler, you will have to carry the gear, and the trick is to have the weight on your hips, as one should wear a backpack.

I use a couple of Think Tank holsters with shoulder straps for stability, but the weight is actually carried on a substantial hip belt to which the holsters are strapped securely. This belt cushions the weight and keeps it all on my pelvis . That way I am not tiring out my arms or shoulders carrying the gear and the cameras are not swinging about. I just pick up one or other of the cameras from their holsters, take my shots and return them when I am done.

This allows my torso to move freely, and apart from the fact that my waist is rather larger than normal, its easy to get around.

[Manfred M]

+1 to Trev's comment on the backpack.

That is exactly what I do; I have a ThinkTank Streetwalker Harddrive backpack that can handle a long lens and my heavy duty tripod. It has the hip support you mention and it is absolutely essential when carrying heavy loads.

I'm a couple of years younger than you are Trev, but have a lot of problems with my feet and used a cane to get around until around 2013 when I had recovered from major foot surgery. The advantage of the backpack is that I can use hiking poles for stability when walking on rough terrain. I've migrated from a Kata backpack (now part of Manfrotto) backpack that I wore out to the ThinkTank in 2017 and have traveled throughout North and South America, Europe and Asia with it.

[William W]

I supposed that "a good system of carriage" would mean different things for different shooting scenarios and how you are setting up your shoots.

I agree 100% with Trev's comments about weight on hips, especially for a 'walk'.

I have two fantastic LowePro backpacks both offer great support: neither can carry a 500/4.

Other options which may be useful:

I'd 'carry' the 500/4 (and all my other gear) to the venue in a RollerCase - no idea whether that suits how you will approach Bird Photography.

I carry the 500/4 at the venue, (only IF I have to move it, otherwise it is left laying on the turf) mounted on its Monopod, lens facing backwards, over my right shoulder - I expected, as you mentioned, you'll have the 500/4MkII on a Tripod and Gimbal for shooting and I also guess that will be sort of set up in one place: if I had to move that rig a relatively short distance, then I would use the same carry.

Any over garment (such as a Jumper/Pullover/Windcheater) can be used as a 'pillow' for the shoulder during the short jaunt. If the monopod/tripod is at about eye level, then there is minimal lifting of the rig involved: its just a matter of walking forward into the camera, with the lens facing you and taking the foot (monopod) or feet (tripod) off balance. Maybe the tripod legs will need to be closed a bit.

WW

[William W]

... anyway with a 500/4MkII in your kit, you'll be like a kid on Christmas Day - it will be as light as a feather the adrenal glands will be pumping so much. Have fun with it.

"South East" - where?

WW

[Tronhard]

I know what you mean about injuries Manfred. I had serious knee issues for about a decade and they got progressively worse as my right knee, in particular, degenerated. I could barely walk 100m and carrying any heavy load was excruciating. I bought Canon M-5s and a bunch of EF-M lenses so I could continue to shoot something, but I always wanted to get back to my big heavy lenses and DSLRs. A couple of years ago I had knee replacement surgery and it was life-changing - Within about six months I was doing multi-day hiking with a 23kg (50lb) backpack and I was using my old gear again.

I too have a much-loved Kata Bumblebee backpack - so sad it was discontinued when Manfrotto bought them. It has an external frame and can carry a lot of gear very comfortably. But for day shooting (which has normally been wildlife, and now in NZ pretty exclusively birds) I usually stick to the rig I described earlier so I can get to a camera instantly. I rarely take a tripod or even monopod with me, and rely on steady hands (that's where the fitness helps), to get my shots. With the IS on lenses now I get a fairly good ratio of clear shots.

[wooster]

Hi all,

Some great information and advice above. Thank you all for your helpful comments.

I agree about keeping in condition. I have arthritic issues in my hands and also my neck so I need to be a bit cautious with exercises but as we get older these workouts become more important then ever.

I was fairly active until February but then lockdown in the last few months made me work at home and as there are four of us all doing the same in our house, I retreated to my room with my laptop mainly working on the bed. I know, I know, its an atrocious way to work and I’m paying the price in back pain and weakness, so time to sort this out again.

I walk a fair bit most days and thought that was enough to keep me reasonably fit but I've realised this is not the case. It’s literally in the last week that I’ve started doing resistance training in an effort to maintain mobility and strength as best I can.

Trev your post has inspired me to greater things,

In terms of the gear moving stuff, I’m likely to get a hold of a Think Tank Glass Limo for the lens and camera body though I’m not too sure how well that would sit with the idea of having everything on my hips? My tripod is a Gitzo carbon fibre which isn’t too heavy to lug around.

I was interested in Bill’s idea of using some sort of roller case. I did have some idea of using an old fishing trolley I have in the garage. I used to fish a lot and it was a must for my gear back then. It is lightweight with inflatable wheels but I wondered if the vibration and bumping would be detrimental to the photography gear gong over rough terrain? Otherwise it seemed like a great idea. What do you gents say?

Bill, you’re right. I am excited about this lens. It’s a big deal for me to buy it. I’m due to retire and my finances - well that’s a whole story in itself which I won’t bore you with - but lets just say they are not robust, so it is a major purchase for me and I’m two parts excited and one part apprehensive.

Oh and I’m in South East England. Fixed my profile

Thank you all again for your help.

[xpatUSA]

Oh and I’m in South East England. Fixed my profile

Where I was born in 1940, William!

You are not alone -my hands shake and walking more than 50 yards is painful ...

[Manfred M]

Hi all,

Some great information and advice above. Thank you all for your helpful comments.

I agree about keeping in condition. I have arthritic issues in my hands and also my neck so I need to be a bit cautious with exercises but as we get older these workouts become more important then ever.

I was fairly active until February but then lockdown in the last few months made me work at home and as there are four of us all doing the same in our house, I retreated to my room with my laptop mainly working on the bed. I know, I know, its an atrocious way to work and I’m paying the price in back pain and weakness, so time to sort this out again.

I walk a fair bit most days and thought that was enough to keep me reasonably fit but I've realised this is not the case. It’s literally in the last week that I’ve started doing resistance training in an effort to maintain mobility and strength as best I can.

Trev your post has inspired me to greater things,

In terms of the gear moving stuff, I’m likely to get a hold of a Think Tank Glass Limo for the lens and camera body though I’m not too sure how well that would sit with the idea of having everything on my hips? My tripod is a Gitzo carbon fibre which isn’t too heavy to lug around.

I was interested in Bill’s idea of using some sort of roller case. I did have some idea of using an old fishing trolley I have in the garage. I used to fish a lot and it was a must for my gear back then. It is lightweight with inflatable wheels but I wondered if the vibration and bumping would be detrimental to the photography gear gong over rough terrain? Otherwise it seemed like a great idea. What do you gents say?

Bill, you’re right. I am excited about this lens. It’s a big deal for me to buy it. I’m due to retire and my finances - well that’s a whole story in itself which I won’t bore you with - but lets just say they are not robust, so it is a major purchase for me and I’m two parts excited and one part apprehensive.

Oh and I’m in South East England. Fixed my profile

Thank you all again for your help.

I have a roller case as well, but pretty well only use it when shooting in buildings or around town where the terrain is suitable, or when traveling and I want to put my photo gear in the car or in an overhead bin on a flight. It is not at all suitable for unpaved paths and trails. Mine is made by Domke, but I don't remember the specific model. It will take my longer 150 - 500mm and 80 - 400mm lenses at the same time (I get to carry my wife's gear too, so I need something that will take a couple of long lenses).

That being said, I have seen some innovative carriers that appear to be modified golf cart and all-terrain baby carriers. I suspect that there may be some commercial units out there as well.

[rpcrowe]

I just turned 80! My ability to effectively carry heavy gear has been geometrically reduced each ten years prior to my octagenerational birthday... I began noticing a slowdown in my capabilities around 60 but, that didn't really amount to much. I was still able to carry the load but, by 70-years old, my capabilities began to be significantly reduced.

Around 75, I sold off my heavy weight Canon gear and replaced it with lighter weight Sony mirrorless APSC equipment.

An example of the switch was changing from the Canon 7D2 with 10-400mm L IS II lens to the far lighter weight Sony A6400 with Sony 70-350mm lens. Not "quite" equivalent capability (50mm shorter and no TC capability) but, far lighter in weight. I "could" have chosen the Sony 100-400mm lens to use with my Sony APSC mirrorless cameras but, I had learned my lesson. An A6400 with 70-350mm lens that I have with me will do a much better job than a camera with 100-400mm lens that I leave home because it is too heavy!

I have modified a three wheeled push golf cart into a camera/light carrier for outdoor portraits. Unfortunately soon after this cart was completed, COVID-19 hit with all its fury and I have chosen no to do outdoor portrait work.

I have the cart in my RV garage and will shoot some images since the weather has cooled down significantly. Unfortunately, untl the COVID-19 threat is eliminated (by vaccines) I won't be able to shoot the cart in action. However, I will be strictly a portrait cart, not a wildlife photo platform.

[Tronhard]

I agree about keeping in condition. I have arthritic issues in my hands and also my neck so I need to be a bit cautious with exercises but as we get older these workouts become more important then ever.

I was fairly active until February but then lockdown in the last few months made me work at home and as there are four of us all doing the same in our house, I retreated to my room with my laptop mainly working on the bed. I know, I know, its an atrocious way to work and I’m paying the price in back pain and weakness, so time to sort this out again.

William, in one of my careers I used to be a rehab specialist and I have practiced what I preach here. Basically we get the kind of body we use - it's an expression of Sullivan's Law for structures and Wolff's Law for Bones: simply put - Form Follows Function. For example, a marathon runner will need a completely different body compared to a 100m sprinter.

For the average person there are there are five aspects to a fit body that need to be considered for a balanced fitness program - the FACES of fitness, if you will:

Flexibility - the ability of a muscle or joint to extend and contract through its full range of motion. That is enhanced by gentle exercises to warm up the muscles and connective tissue and then lots of stretching. PNF (Proprioceptive Neuromuscular Facilitation) stretching can dramatically increase your RoM. Basically, with a warm muscle group, you stretch the joint until you get a slight tremble - this is caused by the tendons "warning" that they are about to contract to protect the joint. Hold that for a period of 30 secs or so, then back off. After a short period resume the stretch and you should find that the flexibility of the joint increases. Doing the repeatedly can add quite a bit of RoM to a joint. Flexibility enhances strength as it allows your muscles to engage more contractive tissue.

Aerobic Fitness: The ability of muscles to efficiently use macro nutrients (carbs and fats in particular) in chemical reactions to release energy for muscular contraction, and the efficiency of the muscles to clear away waste (in the form of lactic acid). This is associated with working within your aerobic range for extended periods and is usually based on heart rate. Take your age, subtract it from 220, and that's your maximum HR. The aerobic range is between 65 and 85% of that number. Another way is the "talk test" while exercising: if you can sing, you need to work harder, but if you can barely gasp out a word - that's too hard. Good examples of aerobic exercise are walking (at pace), cycling, aqua-aerobics, STEP and conventional aerobics. Obviously you pick the exercises that work for your particular situation. Keeping them up for over 45 minutes should be a goal.

Cardio-respiratory Fitness: The ability of the lungs to exchange CO2 for O2 and to transport O2 to the muscles and take away waste - CO2 and lactic acid from the muscles. This is achieved by short periods of intense activity above your aerobic level. It is here that INTERVAL training comes into its own. Do a long period of aerobic activity, then a very short period of intense activity, then revert back to another cycle of aerobics - this can be done by walking or cycling. Repeating this causes the body to respond by improving the performance of heart, lungs, kidneys and liver. It is a very rapid way of improving fitness, but should be supervised by a health or fitness professional, especially as we age.

Endurance Fitness: The ability of a muscle or group of muscles to repeat a contraction or hold it. A prime example is your abdominals. They should be strong enough to hold your body taut and support the back at all times - in this case, correctly done sit-ups (you don't need equipment for this!) help a lot. For other muscle groups doing resistance work in sets where you can just manage 8 to begin with, then as you get stronger and can do 12, revert back to 8 with a heavier weight. This is where New Body and Pump classes are good.

There are two options for the "S"
Muscular Strength: In this case it would be defined as the ability of a muscle group to make a single all-out effort. Really, this is limited to weight lifters and is not recommended for most people, so there is an alternative S

Body Structure: this looks at the percentage of lean body mass compared to fat. This varies with ethnicity and gender, see this link:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968570/

This table of percentage fat levels comes from the American Council on Exercise for Caucasian ethnicity:
Description ......Women .......Men
Essential Fat .......10-13% ....... 2- 5%
Athletes ..............14-20 ...........6-13
Fitness ............... 21-24 .........14-17
Average ..............25-31 .........18-24
Obese .............. 32+............ 25+

Your description of the issues you have is not unfamiliar to me. For arthritis keeping up your range of motion without undue stress on the joints is important. Being in lockdown is certainly a challenging situation (in NZ we went hard and early and we are now as close to COVID-free as anyone can claim right now), and you are more likely to be limited to your home workspace. So with that thought in mind I recommend the following:

I would recommend going on-line and finding some of the gentle Pilates workouts that are available - most do not require equipment apart from a towel. After consulting with fitness health professional as regards the type of arthritis you have (Osteoarthritis or Rheumatoid) and what is appropriate.

For hands, you need to consider some gentle movements with no weight - flexing and extending, and rotation - all done slowly
For neck, consider lying on the ground and tipping your head forward SLOWLY, and with hands supporting the head at the base of the skull. Keep you head in straight ahead alignment for this. I would frankly recommend seeing a Kinesiologist of Physiotherapist for this.

For your hips and knees, I would encourage you to source a good quality exer-cycle or wind trainer and use that, initially with low resistance, to improve your ROM (Range of Motion). It will initially hurt because of the accumulation of arthritis crystals, but as they break down the pain should subside and mobility increase. When that happens you can increase the speed and/or resistance to strengthen the supportive tissue and muscles.

When these facilities open I would encourage you to go to your local swimming pool and do water walking. Many pools have a lane dedicated to this. You just walk up and down, raising your knees up with each stride. The water takes some of your weight, which reduces stress and pain, and warm water will be soothing. As your fitness improves try moving faster - you will find the resistance increases dramatically and that will crank up your heart rate - that and actual aqua-fit classes will be good options for aerobic activity.

[William W]

. . . I was interested in Bill’s idea of using some sort of roller case. I did have some idea of using an old fishing trolley I have in the garage. . . It is lightweight with inflatable wheels but I wondered if the vibration and bumping would be detrimental to the photography gear [going] over rough terrain? Otherwise it seemed like a great idea. What do you gents say?

The EF 500/4 is built as if it were made by the M4 Sherman Tank Company: I reckon the MkII is too.

Pneumatic Tyres are a bonus. Provided the Rolling Rig was balanced and stable I’d take it over bumpy ground.

Obviously, (well maybe not so obvious if you haven’t read a lot of my previous commentaries), I have a biased view, which comes from the standpoint that these (expensive) lenses are simply very good, well made robust, high quality tools and whilst they should not be disrespected, they’re built to work and not to be mollycoddled.

I respect that this is a substantial personal purchase and therein, often lies the rub: noted I have never bought a 500/4 with my own money. The 300/2.8, 400/2.8 and 500/4 I use are all either short term rented or supplied by an Agent, however I do own a substantial amount of Photographic gear, and I do treat all my personal gear well, but from the standpoint of each item being a "tool", not a newborn baby for which I have to provide excessive care and protection.

WW

[Tronhard]

I agree with Bill - although I must admit I baby my gear!

If you get any great quality lens - the Canon L series of lenses are certainly that - then they should take some knocks: L lenses are designed for the wear and tear of professional use when breakage in the field is not an option. If you are going to trundle them I would suggest a bed of bubble wrap around the camera and lens to stop them thrashing about. The larger the wheels the softer the ride, so avoid using something like an airport trundler suitcase in all but the most manicured environments. If you are just using a single lens and camera body combination, you should be OK to carry them in a backpack of some kind with appropriate padding - even a sweater or fleece would work. That will certainly reduce any impact.

[wooster]

Where I was born in 1940, William!

You are not alone -my hands shake and walking more than 50 yards is painful ...

Sorry to hear. I've not got there yet but I'm certainly feeling the passage of time.

[wooster]

Hi Trev,

Thank you for your detailed analysis and recommendations. Much appreciated. I have osteoarthritis and it's mainly in my hands. I was a musician for many years and during that time I acquired tendonitis issues as well as arthritic fingers. I have seen hand specialists and have been given stretching exercises to help as well as some strengthening routines to follow.

I have had another significant health issue which kept me from working at my potential for many years but I dealt with that evetually and this issue is easily my most debilitating health problem to the extent that I hardly play at all now. My left pinkie is almost completely useless for most instruments although I can still manage the guitar and banjo though to a much less extent than previously piano is a real pain. I'm currently trying to write some stuff on the computer using Logic Pro X but I'm finding that curve pretty steep- not so much the "how to" but learning new technique!

As far as exercises go, I have downloaded some videos for general suppleness and fitness and am working my way back using them and as. I mentioned I'm doing some resistance training again to try and get back in shape. I haven't tried Pilates so I'm onto that. Thanks for the tip.

i'm looking forward to the day when I can use the local swimming pools but who knows when that will be.

Thank you agin for your help and advice

[wooster]

Hi Bill

I wasn't so much worried about the lens as the camera bodies. I seem to recall an eminent American photographer whose name escapes me talking about parts coming loose on hie camera due to engine vibration? its possible I've imagined that though.

I have spent a fair bit of money on a number of things including some photography items (ie an R5 body and this lens) and its likely i wont be in a position to replace them readily in future. The only reason I could do this now is because I recently had an influx of cash due to the sale of some musical instruments ( arthritis again ! ) so I'm being a bit precious in my treatment of them.

I'm probably being over-cautious.

I looked out my old fishing trolley today. its wheels are pretty big with reasonably sized pneumatic tyres so I'm pretty sure it will absorb vibrations just fine.

Its most likely i will end up using the Glass Limo for the bird expeditions with heavy lens and body and my Lowepro backpack for any other trips. OTOH it's nice to have the trolley as a backup option.