Argyll for ICC profiling gives horrible results

[TarekAH]

Hi all,
hopefully someone here has a little experience with Argyll tool for creating an ICC profile.

I am trying to use it directly from the command line by providing the necessary .tiff image of a color checker (Spyder24 in my case) and passing the necessary arguments .cie and .cht for scanning, detection and creating the intermediate .ti3 file that contains basically the values of the patches in the provided image.
all that is happening as following:

scanin.exe -v 1.tiff ref/SpyderChcker24.cht ref/SpyderChecker24.cie

Then after than using the colprof.exe executable to read the created .ti3 file and create the corresponding ICC profile as following

colporf.exe -v -qh -ax -u 1

it works and it generates an ICC profile. However, inspecting the profile and applying it give horrific results!

any suggestion why is that happening? am I missing something?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: here are the images you may peek on them and/or download and try yourself
http://we.tl/t-6rnDkiKAU3
the link contains the raw image (IIQ), the converted (tiff) image using Libraw, and the profiled image (JPG)
(you may opt only one file of the aforementioned by clicking on preview if needed)

+
in the attachment you may check the gamut and the tone curve of the profile themselves

[dje]

I've dabbled with Argyll but am not an expert on it. Is this icc profile for use with Capture One? Could you supply a copy of the profile please? Is it a simple matrix or a 3D LUT?

Dave

[xpatUSA]

Hi all,
hopefully someone here has a little experience with Argyll tool for creating an ICC profile.

I am trying to use it directly from the command line by providing the necessary .tiff image of a color checker (Spyder24 in my case) and passing the necessary arguments .cie and .cht for scanning, detection and creating the intermediate .ti3 file that contains basically the values of the patches in the provided image.
all that is happening as following:

scanin.exe -v 1.tiff ref/SpyderChcker24.cht ref/SpyderChecker24.cie

Then after than using the colprof.exe executable to read the created .ti3 file and create the corresponding ICC profile as following

colporf.exe -v -qh -ax -u 1

it works and it generates an ICC profile. However, inspecting the profile and applying it give horrific results!

any suggestion why is that happening? am I missing something?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: here are the images you may peek on them and/or download and try yourself
http://we.tl/t-6rnDkiKAU3
the link contains the raw image (IIQ), the converted (tiff) image using Libraw, and the profiled image (JPG)

+
in the attachment you may check the gamut and the tone curve of the profile themselves

Sorry, 296MB is too much for my limited bandwidth - projected time is over an hour.

Could you post just the TIFF? I don't have Argyll but somewhere I've got CoCa not that that would tell us much ...

Your Spyder card - is it the same as the 24-patch Xrite-Macbeth?

Could you post the ICC? -I could look at a 3D L*a*b* gamut in Color Think 2.3.3 ...

I take it that the -v verbose switch is not giving any clues ...

[xpatUSA]

in the attachment you may check the gamut and the tone curve of the profile themselves

Here's a bit more readable version:



As you say ... horrible!!

The other two are sRGB and a printer?

[TarekAH]

here is the ICC profile generated by Argyll and yeah I believe Argyll with argument -qx goes for XYZ LUT

https://we.tl/t-19JXd5v3Nq

[TarekAH]

Here's a bit more readable version:



As you say ... horrible!!

The other two are sRGB and a printer?

well...the dashed one is sRGB, and the solid one is CIELab

[xpatUSA]

here is the ICC profile generated by Argyll and yeah I believe Argyll with argument -qx goes for XYZ LUT

Can't see a link on my monitor, Tarek.

[TarekAH]

Sorry, 296MB is too much for my limited bandwidth - projected time is over an hour.

Could you post just the TIFF? I don't have Argyll but somewhere I've got CoCa not that that would tell us much ...

Your Spyder card - is it the same as the 24-patch Xrite-Macbeth?

Could you post the ICC? -I could look at a 3D L*a*b* gamut in Color Think 2.3.3 ...

I take it that the -v verbose switch is not giving any clues ...

-The tiff image you may find it in the same link if you click on preview so you can choose to download only one of the three files

-my spyder card is yeah only the 24-patch which is similar to x-rite only different in order you know.

- the ICC profile has been posted one post above

[TarekAH]

Can't see a link on my monitor, Tarek.

sorry...updated < https://we.tl/t-19JXd5v3Nq >

[xpatUSA]

well...the dashed one is sRGB, and the solid one is CIELab

Got it, thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIELAB_color_space

Sometimes I get confused between "color space" and "color model" ...

[xpatUSA]

sorry...updated < https://we.tl/t-19JXd5v3Nq >

Here you are:



There are four suspicious tags:

Profile type says "scnr" should that be "scrn"?

DevD and CIED both say "GretagMacbeth" but you said the Spyder colors are in a different order.

arts says "private (secret sauce)" which does not bode well.

The last three tags are not normal i.e. they are not found in the normal IEC sRGB profile.

Judging by the wacky appearance above, I would suspect the order of the colors - Spyder vs. Macbeth.

[TarekAH]

well...that is odd!
for the tags I have no hand in modifying any and it is all what Argyll executables give as an output

and for the input references I assure you that I used the ones corresponding to Spyder color checker which is strange to here that instead Macbeth has been tagged!! (have a look at the attached photo just to check the command line output of scanning/preparing the .ti3 file)
>> https://imgur.com/a/mJnA5R6


then the question might be: is Argyll invariant to the rotation of the input image...or even to the order of the patch names in the ti3 file and the reference files?

[xpatUSA]

I also looked with the ICC Profile Inspector ... -the A2B0 LUT graphs look odd to me but am no expert on how they "should" look ...

[Round Tuit]

What device are you trying to profile?
How did you create the tiff file of the target and most importantly under what condition?
Finally, where did you get the cie values for your specific target?

[xpatUSA]

well...that is odd!
for the tags I have no hand in modifying any and it is all what Argyll executables give as an output

Understood. The three tags are what are called "private" in ICC-speak. I have no idea what they do, sorry.

and for the input references I assure you that I used the ones corresponding to Spyder color checker which is strange to here that instead Macbeth has been tagged!! (have a look at the attached photo just to check the command line output of scanning/preparing the .ti3 file)
>> https://imgur.com/a/mJnA5R6

I see that the Spyder is indeed mentioned specifically by name. The rest is double-Dutch to me.

then the question might be: is Argyll invariant to the rotation of the input image...or even to the order of the patch names in the ti3 file and the reference files?

Sorry again but I have never used Argyll and the last time I tried to use CoCa it didn't work (poss. the new computer or summats). We need an Argyll guru to step in ...

[xpatUSA]

Sorry again but I have never used Argyll and the last time I tried to use CoCa it didn't work (poss. the new computer or summats). We need an Argyll guru to step in ...

Meanwhile, how about making an ICC from this:

http://kronometric.org/phot/color/Co...Bruce_sRGB.tif

It's a perfect MacBeth 24-patch TIFF created by the well-known Bruce Lindbloom and is dead accurate.

(no camera or converter involved) ...

Will it come out right, or be just as bad as the Spyder -that might tell you something ...

[xpatUSA]

Finally, where did you get the CIE values for your specific target?

If the Spyder target is listed and selectable -then the profiler should already have those data in the code. In other words, the User does not have to "get" and enter them. If I understand profilers correctly.

[dje]

Tarek I suspect there is a problem with your tiff file. The profile creation software takes the raw camera RGB data for the patches and looks to transpose it to the reference data for the patches. I suspect that your tiff data contains other than raw data. To try and establish this, I ran your raw file in RawDigger (profile edition) together with Illiah's MakeInputICC program (which is based on Argyll). The resulting profile seems to work OK in Capture One on your raw file, althiugh there is a problem with the tone curve. Colors are OK though.

This link contains my profile together with the .ti3 file created during the process i used. You could try this with your Argyll script. Also included is the reference data used for the Spyder patches (.cie file). Note that the Spyder patches are similar in color to XRite but not the same, and as you say, the order is different.

Some food for thought for you!

Dave

[xpatUSA]

This link contains my profile together with the .ti3 file created during the process i used.

Dave

Hi Dave, here is the 3D gamut (CIELAB) for your profile ... for what it's worth.



Hope it works for Tarek ...

[xpatUSA]

The profile creation software takes the raw camera RGB [?] data for the patches and looks to transpose it to the reference data for the patches. I suspect that your tiff data contains other than raw data.

So no point in him trying out the MacBeth TIFF I linked to because I doubt it contains four-channel RGBG raw data.