Evoking Christmas

[pschlute]

[ST1]

I like them all Peter, the middle one has that Christmas Card/Advert look to it IYSWIM.


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[pschlute]

I like them all Peter, the middle one has that Christmas Card/Advert look to it IYSWIM.




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I know...corny

[bje07]

Nice Peter, they are all in the theme, but for me they are a bit too yellow.

[Manfred M]

+1 to Jean's comment. These remind me of images from the film days where people shot daylight film under tungsten light conditions and that resulted in that warm, yellow colour cast.

While I understand the look, I am not a fan.

[xpatUSA]

I feel that the comments re yellow are a little too general.

The best example in support of that is the last of the three where the only yellow hue is the candle at 47 degrees, i.e. close to 60 (pure yellow). And the hue shift away from red elsewhere is only 5 degrees or so - not really enough to be called a cast, IMHO.

[pschlute]

I got what I set out to achieve with the second two....warm glow. The mice picture I think needs another attempt. This was all lit from a combination of household lamps, candle light and a fire in the grate.

Here is a more subdued one......

[Manfred M]

I feel that the comments re yellow are a little too general.

The best example in support of that is the last of the three where the only yellow hue is the candle at 47 degrees, i.e. close to 60 (pure yellow). And the hue shift away from red elsewhere is only 5 degrees or so - not really enough to be called a cast, IMHO.

One quote that I picked up from one of my teachers / mentors is that "colour is an opinion".

Trying to go beyond that to try to nail a technical / scientific numeric value is impossible, if for no other reason than no two people are likely to agree on the values to assign to it. Will a neutral colour work here; probably not as these scenes likely need to be warm-toned to some extent.

So no, I feel that the general statements that Jean and I offered are more than adequate to describe what is not working for us.

[xpatUSA]

I got what I set out to achieve with the second two....warm glow. The mice picture I think needs another attempt. This was all lit from a combination of household lamps, candle light and a fire in the grate.

Here is a more subdued one......

I'm trying to guess what the bright non-blurred ellipses are ... ?

There were some in the mice pic, too.

[Wavelength]

Nice set of images; conveys the mood of the occasion

[xpatUSA]

Originally Posted by xpatUSA I feel that the comments re yellow are a little too general.

The best example in support of that is the last of the three where the only yellow hue is the candle at 47 degrees, i.e. close to 60 (pure yellow). And the hue shift away from red elsewhere is only 5 degrees or so - not really enough to be called a cast, IMHO.

One quote that I picked up from one of my teachers / mentors is that "colour is an opinion".

No doubt that that one quote had some context but of little relevance to the subject at hand - other than at a photographically vague level.

Trying to go beyond that to try to nail a technical / scientific numeric value is impossible, if for no other reason than no two people are likely to agree on the values to assign to it.

I did not "try to nail a technical / scientific numeric value" and neither did I "assign a value" so I'm not sure what your point is.

I measured the hues in the GIMP after decomposing the image to a hue channel.

Will a neutral colour work here; probably not as these scenes likely need to be warm-toned to some extent.

Not sure what is meant by "a neutral colour" ...

So no, I feel that the general statements that Jean and I offered are more than adequate to describe what is not working for us.

And I feel that the general statements that Jean and your good self offered are less than adequate to describe the actual image coloration, sorry.

[Manfred M]

And I feel that the general statements that Jean and your good self offered are less than adequate to describe the actual image coloration, sorry.

Obviously we don't agree here and most photographers I have worked with give similarly vague statements and they are understood.

While not quite 100% on this topic, a quote from Edward Weston will at least give some people an understanding where I am coming from:

"Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk."

Colour temperatures / colour casts are not rules of composition, but impact the outcome of the image.

[pschlute]

I'm trying to guess what the bright non-blurred ellipses are ... ?

There were some in the mice pic, too.

They are the bokeh balls from the "berry lights" themselves. You can see them in detail in the second picture in my first post.

[pschlute]

Nice Peter, they are all in the theme, but for me they are a bit too yellow.

Will a neutral colour work here; probably not as these scenes likely need to be warm-toned to some extent.

So no, I feel that the general statements that Jean and I offered are more than adequate to describe what is not working for us.

I understand the comments regarding the mice picture, and I had problems lighting the mice themselves. But the other two images do not to me appear too yellow. Christmas decorations in a fireplace, lit by candles..... the colours have to be warm or the image cannot work.

[DanK]

Well, it's all a matter of taste, but I agree that the first one is too yellow. It doesn't look like warm light; it looks like illumination from yellow light. I played with it some, and I found that the blue channel is zeroed out or close to it throughout the image. That's what gives it the strong yellow color. I tried using the color grading tool in ACR, cooling darks the most and highlights much less, and it looks more natural to me, and still warm. But it's not my image.

What I found interesting was following up on Ted's comment. In the first image, the red wrapping paper looks unnatural to me, but in fact, it's pure red in most places according to photoshop.

[xpatUSA]

What I found interesting was following up on Ted's comment. In the first image, the red wrapping paper looks unnatural to me, but in fact, it's pure red in most places according to photoshop.

Indeed, and also according to the GIMP, Dan.

Much of the paper pixel count has crushed green or blue channels and often both ... as you say, pure red and, of course, 100 pct saturation.

Also, looking at the saturation map, between 96 and 100 pct saturation totals 2.9Mpx out of 3.1Mpx - in line with Peter's intent if I understand correctly.

Apologies to Peter and Manfred for inflicting actual values on such fine images.

[xpatUSA]

Obviously we don't agree here ...

... Colour temperatures / colour casts are not rules of composition, but impact the outcome of the image.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. I was talking about degrees of hue (angle round the color circle), not color temperatures (Kelvin).

[Manfred M]

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. I was talking about degrees of hue (angle round the color circle), not color temperatures (Kelvin).

I understand that Ted

Yes, HSV and RGB are two different ways of describing colour. Both colour models have their their benefits and drawbacks. Isolating the value and saturation from the hue makes certain operations a lot more logical and controllable. I have a hard time trying to explain to people why saturation changes when we darken (or lighten) colours in a RGB colour space.

Unfortunately, most photographers tend to think in RGB, so introducing HSV, HSL, L*a*b*, CMYK, etc. tends to not to enhance understanding for most. They tend to be fine when someone tells them their favourite tools actually uses one of these colour models, so long as this is hidden from them.

I have argued with some that Photoshop supports HSL functionality and have gotten some really strange looks until I show them this panel:

[xpatUSA]

Unfortunately, most photographers tend to think in RGB, so introducing HSV, HSL, L*a*b*, CMYK, etc. tends to not to enhance understanding for most.

I understand the point. So it would better to analyze the amount of yellow in an image in terms of RGB for better understanding by most photographers. So now I wonder what range of yellowness is considered to be "yellow" in the context of this thread?

[Manfred M]

Boy, I'm glad I don't think in terms of RGB! It seems that yellowness is the balance of R and G which, when equal, are as yellow as one can get. And then tint is gained by increasing B and shade is gotten by reducing R and G pro rata.

Too much for my simple mind ...

If you understand the RGB system, you know that to remove a colour cast, you decrease the amount of colour or increase its complement. If something is too yellow, just add blue. You don't touch the red or green.

The sliders on the Photoshop control demonstrate this clearly.