Please advise me on processing and library software (Mac OSX Big Sur)

[Adrian]

Please advise me on what library and image processing software you would recommend for a Mac user for amateur use. I’ve had past experience with Aperture, iPhoto, Photos, Lightroom and PS. A tiny bit with Gimp.

But I need now to build a website and some print materials as we are opening our garden and a catering venture publicly post lockdown. There will also be a book. This lot will be 90% images and design, with minimal text and I need to revisit library and processing software for this. I only have Photos available currently and am looking at alternatives, including the latest iteration of Luminar 4 with AI, which I have never used before. I'm attracted by batch processing, sky replacement, quick deletion of unwanted components and what appear to be similar tools to LR.

Ideally I would like software that shows the focus point (which Aperture had). At present I have our entire library available in Photos (Mac OSX Big Sur). This has some editing capability a bit like LR, and is non-destructive. However, it is also a bit amateurish and dictatorial on workflow. The library functionality is OK and of course is it fully Mac integrated.


Background context

I’ve been a member since 2008 and had active periods here, but in the past few years have just watched threads and not contributed.

I feel as if I have had a rocky ride with software. Started with Aperture (Mac), forced to move to Adobe when Mac killed that, and fell out of love with Lightroom, Photoshop and Bridge when I felt the paid subscription model became too expensive (I dislike subscription software) and Adobe became too intrusive for an amateur user. I also found some elements not very intuitive and dropped Adobe when we no longer needed it for business.

Along with a large Raw, Tiff and jpeg library from past activities, my wife and I have hundreds of iPhone images. These are super convenient, but frankly not very satisfactory for sharpness, editing or reproduction, so we are now building a fresh library of good images with our travel cameras. This means main camera is a full frame Canon 5DIII, backup 70D and a wide range of quality L fast glass. Pro tripod and lighting available.

Kind regards and thanks in advance

Adrian

[Manfred M]

To me it seems that you need to settle down on one package and start to learn that very well.

If you want a decent Photoshop like tool for a fraction of the cost, have a look at Affinity Photo. I have used it, but I prefer the Adobe products as I have no issue with renting software.


https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/

[pschlute]

Another vote for Adobe here. The photography package at £10 a month gives me LR (catalogue); Photoshop (editor); ACR (raw converter); and my own website. All updated regularly.

I see no difference between a subscription service and a one-off purchase that will be updated every few years. Except with the subscription you get it sooner.

[Adrian]

I take the point. However, it is not as variable as it looks. Aperture was binned by Apple and it became iPhoto which became Photos and so has always been there for my decades of Mac use. Adobe was used in my business and I adopted Lightroom for that reason and know it very well. However, the business was sold last year and the licences went with it.

For various reasons I want to limit my use of cloud based software and subscriptions. However, I will have a look at the Adobe package again, and affinity, thank you. Obviously I could compromise and just use Photos.

[DanK]

For various reasons I want to limit my use of cloud based software and subscriptions.

Those are two different things. Adobe offers both cloud-based and local-computer-based software. I use only the latter.

Re websites: there are lots of options, and if the point is advertising a business, I'm not sure I would start with services tailored to photographers. If you do want one that is tailored to photographers, I have been using Smugmug for years and have been very satisfied.

[Adrian]

Those are two different things. Adobe offers both cloud-based and local-computer-based software. I use only the latter.

Re websites: there are lots of options, and if the point is advertising a business, I'm not sure I would start with services tailored to photographers. If you do want one that is tailored to photographers, I have been using Smugmug for years and have been very satisfied.

Thanks. What I meant was that as soon as I stop paying for LR / Adobe (as happened when the business was sold as the users changed) although I can access the images I lose the edit tracking as far as I can see. It really reminded me of the massive inconvenience when apple killed aperture.

I want to control access to cloud storage and use my own server in the way I want.

I'm not worried about web hosting. I can deal with that. This is all about library management and creative editing. I forgot to mention before that I use 3 different computers and need it to run on at least two of them (desk and lap).

[pschlute]

Adobe offers both cloud-based and local-computer-based software. I use only the latter.

Me too. LR Classic is not cloud based.

[Acorn]

To me it seems that you need to settle down on one package and start to learn that very well.

If you want a decent Photoshop like tool for a fraction of the cost, have a look at Affinity Photo. I have used it, but I prefer the Adobe products as I have no issue with renting software.


https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/photo/

Slightly off topic, but Serif, the creator of Affinity Photo, are also turning heads in the field of desktop publishing with its powerful Affinity Publisher. It's drawing professional and other users away from Adobe's "InDesign" for a fraction of the cost.

[Adrian]

Lightroom Classic also appears to follow the subscription model and is expensive to install on multiple computers as it appears to require a different licence for each. However, apart from that, when I researched this previously internet reviews suggested that it is not compatible with OSX Big Sur and will soon fall into the "legacy" bracket as far as Apple is concerned.

I agree about InDesign alternatives. We used to spend a fortune on Creative Cloud for our brochure and web deign team, and In Design in particular is not at all user friendly to learn if you are not a trained graphic designer. My view is that Adobe are rapidly slipping behind the competition as AI software comes on-stream that is capable of being used by less trained consumers.

I have looked again at Luminar AI or 4 and given that it is on special offer at the moment and includes two licences, I may as well try it, especially as it seems to be compatible with Photos. When I get a chance I will research Capture One Pro

[Manfred M]

Sorry, I forgot about the cataloging / raw conversion side of things. The raw converter that Infinity Photo ships with is marginal.

A paid for tool that a lot of people have switch to is Phase One's Capture One. Phase One is a Danish company that makes the $40K+ Phase One cameras.

I believe the licence covers two computers. Its main drawbacks from my workflow are that it does not natively support the L*a*b* colour space and does not support Adobe SmartObjects.

A lot of people prefer it to Lightroom, but a bit of a warning, it has a long learning curve and I am nowhere near to being comfortable with it. I do use it a lot when I shoot tethered, as I find it a lot easier to use and more stable than Lightroom.

It is pricey too.

[Adrian]

Thanks Manfred. I will take a look. I am very computer literate so learning curve does not put me off, (though InDesign was annoying) but as I start to delve back into what I use and probably take for granted, I find myself looking for things like lens correction built in. I still have an old Mac with Aperture running on it and some libraries from a few years ago, and I think that is the only software I have had that reliably showed the focus point within the processing software.

Workflow here will be hybrid as my wife finds RAW images too much faff, and uses as high res JPEGs as she can on her camera. This is unfortunate as most of what she shoots is macro. I shoot RAW and Jpeg combined. The iPhones shoot JPEG (cloud synced to Photos) and although I believe the iPhone 12 may be able to shoot RAW we don't have that and I won't upgrade until 5G turns from myth to reality. The iPhones will be used for video, purely for convenience.

[Adrian]

Hmmm. Capture One seems to be optimised for Nikon, Fuji and Sony. It charges a £100 premium for Canon users (ie me) and that worries me as it suggests to me that it may be buggy on Canon or behind on updates.

[Manfred M]

Hmmm. Capture One seems to be optimised for Nikon, Fuji and Sony. It charges a £100 premium for Canon users (ie me) and that worries me as it suggests to me that it may be buggy on Canon or behind on updates.

Not quite; those three companies have a customized version that only works with their specific camera line. When I first started using Capture One, the only "custom" version was for Phase One cameras. Sony has been on board the longest and ships a basic version of the software. Fuji was up next and Nikon came on board in the last year or so. You won't have any issues with Canon cameras as I know a number of Canon shooters that use Capture One.

The only update issues I've ever run into is there there can be a lag of a month or two before Phase One has created profiles for new cameras. Adobe is no different and I had to wait a month or so when I bought a new camera body. I suspect this might be true for newly released lenses as well.

I believe Capture One can be downloaded as a time-limited trial version, so you can do a test drive before you make a purchase.

[DanK]

The Adobe photography subscription allows installation of LR and PS on two computers, not one.


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[Adrian]

Thanks Dan. As I mentioned originally I do not like buying software on subscription, and the reason for looking at LR classic was I thought it could be bought as a standalone. Classic seems to have compatibility drawbacks anyway with current OSX operating system (and is not alone in that).

Adobe photography sub locks me into Adobe and I dislike their business model. Basically, after years of forking out for several stupidly expensive CC licences for my (ex) staff using PS, InDesign etc, I am about done with Adobe.

Manfred. Thanks. Still I don't see why they should in effect charge extra for Canon users. It's 50% more for the standalone licence. I'm being cautious here as I want this decision to settle on a long term platform. I truly believe that AI processing with use set parameters will take over. I am unlikely to move away from Canon, even if I go down the R mirrorless body route, as with an adaptor I can still use my wide range of L glass.

I have about 55,000 library images most of which were processed in PS/LR after a big migration from Aperture. I am in the process of restructuring this lot and am not really dependent on a third party library system as everything is filed by project/date/RAW/TIFF/jpeg/user etc and is fully searchable. Generally I will only process one folder at a time, being the latest for whatever project I am doing. So for example, I have folder hierarchy for January 2020 horticultural images. Probably only 30 to 40 of these images at most will be good enough and useful enough to warrant image processing.

The whole software thing is more difficult to decide than I expected as we appear to be in a period of tech change.

[Manfred M]

Manfred. Thanks. Still I don't see why they should in effect charge extra for Canon users. It's 50% more for the standalone licence. I'm being cautious here as I want this decision to settle on a long term platform. I truly believe that AI processing with use set parameters will take over. I am unlikely to move away from Canon, even if I go down the R mirrorless body route, as with an adaptor I can still use my wide range of L glass.

Carefully said, Sony, Fuji and Nikon have paid Phase One to create these versions of software for their users, so as part of that process these users get a discount. Other companies like Canon, Olympus, Panasonic and others have not, so users of those cameras get to pay full pop.

[pschlute]

Adobe photography sub locks me into Adobe and I dislike their business model. Basically, after years of forking out for several stupidly expensive CC licences for my (ex) staff using PS, InDesign etc, I am about done with Adobe.

Ok I understand you don't like Adobe. But subscription is the way things are done these days. In your shoes I would go with the system that works best for your business. Precluding subscription services will only limit your options.

[Adrian]

Maybe Peter. I just don't want to be succoured into the subscription model again. It is clear I am not alone as many people have moved away from Adobe tapping directly into our bank accounts every month. Also, I am looking at this as an amateur venture really, not a proper business where I will take premises and employ people - it is largely for fun. If I were doing a commercial venture again, I would have delegated this to someone who knows this stuff and can make a decision.

[xpatUSA]

Thanks Dan. As I mentioned originally I do not like buying software on subscription, and the reason for looking at LR classic was I thought it could be bought as a standalone. Classic seems to have compatibility drawbacks anyway with current OSX operating system (and is not alone in that).

Adobe photography sub locks me into Adobe and I dislike their business model. Basically, after years of forking out for several stupidly expensive CC licences for my (ex) staff using PS, InDesign etc, I am about done with Adobe.

When LR came out, I had no use for it because I decide where to put files, not some stupid DAM prog. I had already had problems with Elements 7 slowing my XP computer to a crawl with it's horrible "catalog" system.

So my computer is currently Adobe-free, which I've said before once or twice.

Probably of little interest to your good self but the GIMP is now available for OS X:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/14597/gimp

My "DAM" consists of leaving my images scattered all over the 1TB hard drive and gradually going through them all adding IPTC structured keywords and stuff. I use Photo Mechanic for that, and also XnView which has a better search engine.

Posted FYI, not telling you what to do ...

[pschlute]

Maybe Peter. I just don't want to be succoured into the subscription model again. It is clear I am not alone as many people have moved away from Adobe tapping directly into our bank accounts every month.

No one taps into your bank account unless you give them permission.

I pay council tax by subscription, plus tv licence; gas and electricity; and water and sewage charges. Plus a number of other things.

You clearly have a gripe with Adobe. I don't. I like to pay for a service that gives me what I want.

You do know you can cancel the subscription after a year ? You are not tied up for life.