A very engaging video on portaiture

[Tronhard]

I browsed into this when I had actually come from another Ted talk related to photography. I hung on and am very glad I did so.

It was emotive and inspiring:
The Tao of Portraits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Q_7p-mBM8

I came across this other talk, also worthy of the time investment.
The Surprising Outcome of Photographing Strangers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U8MHX-36-E

Enjoy
Trevor

[Manfred M]

I watched both videos and can only suggest that both of the featured photographers are virtually the opposite of my style and approach. I would find working with them as a subject quite challenging.

If their work was exceptional, I might be tempted to change my mind, but its not. Kenneth Dolan's in particular is rather uninspiring, but given that he is primarily a headshot photographer, that is hardly surprising. That being said, if you want to see some fine examples of that genre, look at Peter Hurley's work.

https://peterhurley.com/


Some of Mikael Theimer's work is more interesting, but again, from metrics I measure people's work by, I personally don't care for what he shows on his website. While this is partially my personal taste, it also based on what I look for in a strong photograph.

[lunaticitizen]

I looked at Peter Hurley's portfolio and felt that his use of thin depth of field (e.g. OOF ears) a bit distracting. Is this common in portraiture?

[Manfred M]

I looked at Peter Hurley's portfolio and felt that his use of thin depth of field (e.g. OOF ears) a bit distracting. Is this common in portraiture?

Hurley uses continuous light rather than flash, using a medium format Hasselblad. So low ISO, low shutter speed and fairly wide open gives you a shallow DoF. He makes a lot of money with that look.

[lunaticitizen]

Hurley uses continuous light rather than flash, using a medium format Hasselblad. So low ISO, low shutter speed and fairly wide open gives you a shallow DoF. He makes a lot of money with that look.

Well yeah, judging from his client list I could figure out right away that he's a busy guy. I just wanted to know whether or not it's common in portraiture since I know next to nothing about it.

[Manfred M]

Well yeah, judging from his client list I could figure out right away that he's a busy guy. I just wanted to know whether or not it's common in portraiture since I know next to nothing about it.

In studio portraiture the most common practice is to shoot with a small aperture to give a good DoF. As the photographer can set up an non-distracting background there is usually no need to shoot a shallow DoF. I usually work at f/8 or f/11 which is also usually at or near the "sweet spot" of most lenses..

That being said, there is no "rule" saying that one can't shoot wide open.

For a lot of outdoor location photography, longer focal lengths are commonly used (200 - 400mm are considered normal) and that will push the background to be very soft.

This existing light outdoor shot was taken at f/2.8 at a 200mm focal length when the autumn leaves were close to their peak.

[lunaticitizen]

I see. Thank you for the explanation.

Nice picture and beautiful model, by the way.

Sorry Trevor for hijacking your thread.

[rpcrowe]

Lovely portrait, Manfred...

I agree with your premise regarding "studio" vs. "outdoor" portraiture apertures...

In studio type portraiture, the photographer "should" have total control of the background and thus, the need to make the background inconspicuous by using a wide aperture and shallow DOF is not normally required.

However, when shooting outdoors like your portrait of the lovely young lady, I will often use a combination of longer focal length and wider aperture to isolate the subject from the background which can be busy at times... The use of a longer focal length will also, quite often. be more flattering; especially with head and shoulders portraits.

I did this with an 85mm f/1.8 Sony lens wide open on a crop sensor body (equivalent 127.5 mm)...

[Tronhard]

I think the discussion went rather on the technical side of thing rather that the elements that I actually found interesting: i.e. the engagement with the subjects. But whatever...

[escape]

I think the discussion went rather on the technical side of thing rather that the elements that I actually found interesting: i.e. the engagement with the subjects. But whatever...

I liked both videos. For me, it was all about the message.

[Manfred M]

I think the discussion went rather on the technical side of thing rather that the elements that I actually found interesting: i.e. the engagement with the subjects. But whatever...

Trev - unless one is a fairly experienced portrait photographer, most people don't quite get the idea the photographer "connecting" with his or her subject or how important that is to get the best out of the shoot.

Working with experienced models or people who are used to being around cameras in front of an audience is relatively easy, but one still has to connect with the model to get the best out of them. A lot of Kenneth Dolin's clientele appears to be involved in the entertainment industry (the main consumer of head shots), so these people are used to being in front of an audience or in front of a camera.

Working with less experienced models, such as people who are basically off the street are more challenging to work with, in my experience. Getting them to be at ease and to not be intimidated by being in front of a camera is definitely more work. Role playing is definitely one way that I have had some success, because that forces them to concentrate on something other than the camera.

I also find that using a longer focal length, which means shooting further away from the subject helps too. Getting into their "personal space" is one of the fastest ways I know of that will break that model / photographer connection. Regardless, I find striking up a conversation with my subjects / models and getting them to talk about themselves a bit is a great way to start with both experienced and inexperienced subjects.

The one subject I have not quite figured out are introverts (like me). They tend to take a lot longer to let down their guard and once we have connected with the shoot, that connection is far more tenuous and easy to lose. I remember doing one shoot where the subject and I just were not connecting. I suggested we stop and perhaps reschedule at a later time. That ended up not happening.

[escape]

Not everyone is suited to take portraits of strangers in the street. You can learn how to approach strangers, but you genuinely need to like people, be curious, and open to be successful. You may not always get a great shot, but you will get the shot when you learn how to approach strangers. It's also important to remember that strangers are not models, their the subject and should be viewed as such. How a model is shot is purpose-driven. How a stranger is shot in the street is purpose-driven. What is different is the purpose.

I worked a number of years doing cold sales calls. Approaching strangers is the same thing.

[Tronhard]

To me, the thrust of the video on Photographing Strangers was not how to photograph per se, but how photography was a bridge to connect to people with whom we would otherwise not engage, and the rewards that one can enjoy by such connections. I was personally far less interested in the technicalities of how the photographs were taken, or how to get a photograph from a subject than the human element of how we engage or not in our society.

Still, viewers and contributors will each have their own take on these videos and if they get something out of it, then I am glad for them.

[Manfred M]

To me, the thrust of the video on Photographing Strangers was not how to photograph per se, but how photography was a bridge to connect to people with whom we would otherwise not engage, and the rewards that one can enjoy by such connections. I was personally far less interested in the technicalities of how the photographs were taken, or how to get a photograph from a subject than the human element of how we engage or not in our society.

Still, viewers and contributors will each have their own take on these videos and if they get something out of it, then I am glad for them.

Engaging with a human subject is one reason a lot of photographers seem to stay away from genres like portraiture and street photography. The ones who do street photography there is a sub-genre where shooters work in "stealth mode" to ensure that their subject does not notice them and there is no need for any personal contact.

The problem that I have with a lot of photographers is that they feel that their approach is the best one (as opposed to one that they are comfortable with and works for them) and they are more than happy to share their opinion as a "fact".

When it comes to photographing people, the great photographers had all figured that out and learned to "read" their subjects and figuring out what will and will not work very quickly. That is a critical skill to engage with a subject. Street photographers don't generally have the time to do this and while I find it quite easy to do when photographing in a country where I speak the language, it is far more challenging in one where I don't.

[rpcrowe]

Not everyone is suited to take portraits of strangers in the street. You can learn how to approach strangers, but you genuinely need to like people, be curious, and open to be successful. You may not always get a great shot, but you will get the shot when you learn how to approach strangers. It's also important to remember that strangers are not models, their the subject and should be viewed as such. How a model is shot is purpose-driven. How a stranger is shot in the street is purpose-driven. What is different is the purpose.

I worked a number of years doing cold sales calls. Approaching strangers is the same thing.

Many photographers harbor a fear or at least a reluctance to photograph strangers... One way of getting around this fear is to attend events like Renaissance Fairs or Civil War (or other military) reenactments. The participants in these events are happy to be photographed and are willing to work with the photographer... It is easy to get around any reluctance to shoot strangers when attending this type of event.

I agree with Manfred in that a longer lens will often help by not requiring you to intrude into the subjects personal space. If I shoot an event, my favorite combination is a Sony APSC format camera with the 28-75mm Tamron f/2.8 lens. This combination provides an equivalent 42mm to 112.5mm focal range. The wider end is nice for people shooting because of lack of the distortion evident in wider lenses while the short telephoto 112.5mm end is a great portait focal length which will allow me to shoot from a bit of a distance away from my subject.

Here are two shots done with this combination...





If I am willing to carry a second body/lens: it will be either the Sony 85mm f/1.8 or the Sony 70-200mm f/4 G... It "might be a second APSC camera or a full frame camera...