Dull and low contrast with the Epson 3880

[KHR]

Hi everyone! First time posting here.
I have an Epson 3880 that I’ve had for a few years. First couple of years I was frustrated with not getting good print than after researching I ended up buying an Eizo CG277 monitor and calibrated it and finally was getting great results. But haven’t done much the past year and just getting back into it, and back to frustration. Everything is the same except updates to the programs/software/and OS (Windows 10) also started using Capture One 21. My prints keep coming out dull/low contrast. I print from PS. No matter what I do in post processing (increase contrast/reduce brightness) trying to add more black (yes I’m in photo black) the prints come out looking almost identical to the one before. I have tried what I can. Power cleaning the head/alignment/triple check my settings/redo calibration. Using the same paper profiles on the same paper that I’ve used before which gave me beautiful prints. Can’t figure it out. I’ve printed about 20 4x6 prints that look the same no matter what I change.
Looking for suggestions!!!

[Manfred M]

I had a 3880 for about 9 years before it packed it in and I now use the P800 which is has a similar performance to the 3880, but with darker blacks. I always print from Photoshop.

What luminance output have you set your Eizo to? If your screen is too bright that might be the issue. I find I have to run at around 80 cd/ sq meter and work in a dimly lit room.

The other issue could be the light you are viewing the prints under? Generally you need to look at them under fairly decent light levels, unless you are planning to display in a fairly dark space. Generic light levels for viewing should be around 150 lux and exhibition spaces are even higher at around 200 lux.

Which paper are you using and are you letting the printer or Photoshop handle the colour management? It matters if you are printing B&W or in colour.

[KHR]

I had a 3880 for about 9 years before it packed it in and I now use the P800 which is has a similar performance to the 3880, but with darker blacks. I always print from Photoshop.

What luminance output have you set your Eizo to? If your screen is too bright that might be the issue. I find I have to run at around 80 cd/ sq meter and work in a dimly lit room.

The other issue could be the light you are viewing the prints under? Generally you need to look at them under fairly decent light levels, unless you are planning to display in a fairly dark space. Generic light levels for viewing should be around 150 lux and exhibition spaces are even higher at around 200 lux.

Which paper are you using and are you letting the printer or Photoshop handle the colour management? It matters if you are printing B&W or in colour.

I have set the luminance to 90. I print on premium photo paper glossy. But no matter what I do to the image looks the same.

[Manfred M]

I have set the luminance to 90. I print on premium photo paper glossy. But no matter what I do to the image looks

Have you updated the Epson ICC profiles for your printer? Epson changed its whole paper lineup a number of years ago and the old profiles had to be updated. Did you do that?

You did not get back to me on your colour management process. If you are letting Photoshop control the colour management and have not disabled colour management on the printer setup screen, the two conflicting set of colour information might be the problem.

[KHR]

Have you updated the Epson ICC profiles for your printer? Epson changed its whole paper lineup a number of years ago and the old profiles had to be updated. Did you do that?

You did not get back to me on your colour management process. If you are letting Photoshop control the colour management and have not disabled colour management on the printer setup screen, the two conflicting set of colour information might be the problem.

I select no colour management, and let PS manage colours. So is this the same as disabling the colour management on the printer setup screen?
As for ICC profiles. I haven’t changed anything changed anything. Didn’t know they have been updated. Not sure on how to remove the old and install the new ones?
But if these old profiles worked before with good results shouldn’t they still work. It’s still the same stock of paper I used last year.
What I don’t understand is if my print comes out looking a curtain way add I bump up anything in post. I should see some change in the image. But it doesn’t change anything.

[DanK]

No matter what I do in post processing (increase contrast/reduce brightness) trying to add more black (yes I’m in photo black) the prints come out looking almost identical to the one before.

This is VERY weird. You're describing two different problems. Having prints that are too light, too low in contrast, etc., could be a matter of profiling (using the wrong profile or double profiling by having both software and printer trying to control color), softproofing, or other edits.


However, if the software really is not changing the print in response to edits, the problem is none of these things.

Since you have Adobe, I suggest you print from Lightroom as a test. Set the software to control color, set output sharpening to standard, and set the resultion to 360, which is the native Epson resolution. Print once. Then put an extreme curve adjustment on and print again. I'll bet that the two prints will look very different. If they do, then there is some problem either with how you are printing from Photoshop or a problem in your installation of photoshop (which you could probably fix by uninstalling and reinstallling the software).

[KHR]

This is VERY weird. You're describing two different problems. Having prints that are too light, too low in contrast, etc., could be a matter of profiling (using the wrong profile or double profiling by having both software and printer trying to control color), softproofing, or other edits.


However, if the software really is not changing the print in response to edits, the problem is none of these things.

Since you have Adobe, I suggest you print from Lightroom as a test. Set the software to control color, set output sharpening to standard, and set the resultion to 360, which is the native Epson resolution. Print once. Then put an extreme curve adjustment on and print again. I'll bet that the two prints will look very different. If they do, then there is some problem either with how you are printing from Photoshop or a problem in your installation of photoshop (which you could probably fix by uninstalling and reinstallling the software).

Ok I’ll give that shot tonight. I appreciate your suggestions. Thanks

[Manfred M]

From what I can tell, your work flow is correct and like Dan, I see no obvious reason for the results you are getting. It is always challenging to diagnose a problem without seeing the image.

Is there any way you could post both the original image that you have sent to the printer as well as the output (either take a picture of it or scan the print)?

[KHR]

This is VERY weird. You're describing two different problems. Having prints that are too light, too low in contrast, etc., could be a matter of profiling (using the wrong profile or double profiling by having both software and printer trying to control color), softproofing, or other edits.


However, if the software really is not changing the print in response to edits, the problem is none of these things.

Since you have Adobe, I suggest you print from Lightroom as a test. Set the software to control color, set output sharpening to standard, and set the resultion to 360, which is the native Epson resolution. Print once. Then put an extreme curve adjustment on and print again. I'll bet that the two prints will look very different. If they do, then there is some problem either with how you are printing from Photoshop or a problem in your installation of photoshop (which you could probably fix by uninstalling and reinstallling the software).

Sorry for the long delay. My full time job as an HVAC Technician had me working some crazy hours last week and wasn’t able to do anything with this until last night.
So even when printing in PS and LR the prints come out looking the same. I had talked to a the manager at my local photography/camera store who I’ve known for many years and who also taught photography at a local college that I took a course at almost 15 years ago. He asked me to give him the image on a jump drive (also to let you know any image I printed looked similar) and he would print it on his Epson 3880 with the same settings as I had set (which he confirmed were correct) and it looked great! He asked me about my inks. I’ve had them for 21/2 years and the past year I didn’t print at all. I did a power cleaning, head alignment ..... the works. Everything printed showing no clogs. When I brought my test pages in they were much lighter than his at the store that he had done. So he thinks that the pigments in the ink may have settled which is why I’m not getting the full saturation of the blacks and colours. But he said the usually when that happens there a clogging issues.
So I’m tossing all of my inks and have order new ones $$$$.

But forgot to ask him if there was any way to give the head a good cleaning safely with solvents or something?

[Manfred M]

Sorry for the long delay. My full time job as an HVAC Technician had me working some crazy hours last week and wasn’t able to do anything with this until last night.
So even when printing in PS and LR the prints come out looking the same. I had talked to a the manager at my local photography/camera store who I’ve known for many years and who also taught photography at a local college that I took a course at almost 15 years ago. He asked me to give him the image on a jump drive (also to let you know any image I printed looked similar) and he would print it on his Epson 3880 with the same settings as I had set (which he confirmed were correct) and it looked great! He asked me about my inks. I’ve had them for 21/2 years and the past year I didn’t print at all. I did a power cleaning, head alignment ..... the works. Everything printed showing no clogs. When I brought my test pages in they were much lighter than his at the store that he had done. So he thinks that the pigments in the ink may have settled which is why I’m not getting the full saturation of the blacks and colours. But he said the usually when that happens there a clogging issues.
So I’m tossing all of my inks and have order new ones $$$$.

But forgot to ask him if there was any way to give the head a good cleaning safely with solvents or something?

Epson prints "best before" dates on all of their inks and recommends that they be used within 6 months of them being opened. Frankly, I have had inks older than 6 months and they have printed well. Inks for the high end photo printers like the 3880 are primarily water based with very finely ground minerals (pigments). Yes they can settle out over time and I will always give my cartridges a good shake before installing a new one. They can sit around for many months in a warehouse.

Do not use any solvents unless you are trying to ruin your printer!!!! Epson pigment inks are water based. I have also been told that aggressive use of the deep cleaning cycle can ruin the print head if done too often.

I have never had to manually clean my print head, but have been told that distilled water on a very soft, lint free cloth can be used if there is a build up. Have you run a print head test? If there are no gaps in the test patterns, the head is working well and doesn't need any additional cleaning.

[KHR]

Epson prints "best before" dates on all of their inks and recommends that they be used within 6 months of them being opened. Frankly, I have had inks older than 6 months and they have printed well. Inks for the high end photo printers like the 3880 are primarily water based with very finely ground minerals (pigments). Yes they can settle out over time and I will always give my cartridges a good shake before installing a new one. They can sit around for many months in a warehouse.

Do not use any solvents unless you are trying to ruin your printer!!!! Epson pigment inks are water based. I have also been told that aggressive use of the deep cleaning cycle can ruin the print head if done too often.

I have never had to manually clean my print head, but have been told that distilled water on a very soft, lint free cloth can be used if there is a build up. Have you run a print head test? If there are no gaps in the test patterns, the head is working well and doesn't need any additional cleaning.

Yes I ran all the test patterns and everything came out good except that they were very faint and hard to see unlike the ones that were printed at the store. Good to know about not using the solvents. I really didn’t know that there was a best before date. So I just looked and the ones that I pulled says 06 2018. Which surprises me because I purchased earlier 2019.

[Manfred M]

Yes I ran all the test patterns and everything came out good except that they were very faint and hard to see unlike the ones that were printed at the store. Good to know about not using the solvents. I really didn’t know that there was a best before date. So I just looked and the ones that I pulled says 06 2018. Which surprises me because I purchased earlier 2019.

Those results would suggest that much of the pigment has settled out of the ink, so the remaining material would have very little ink in it. I would stop printing with those cartridges as there have to be deposits of the pigments in the cartridges and the last thing you want is getting that stuff into the ink supply lines and the print heads. I suspect that would irreparably damage them.

You might want to have another look at the dates on the cartridges; mine have both the date of manufacture and the expiry date (manufacturing date + 3 years).

[DanK]

I’ve had them for 21/2 years and the past year I didn’t print at all.

Ouch. This is not OK with printers that use pigment ink. Hopefully, it's just bad ink and not damage to the head.

I agree with Manfred that runing a nozzle check would be step 1 after dealing with the inks. However, in my experience, that's necessary but not sufficient. A print head can pass enough ink for a nozzle check but not enough for a proper print. If the nozzle check is OK and the inks are taken care of, it will become clear whether there is more of a problem with the head.

Epson and Canon printers (which I use) work on a different principle, but in the case of Canon printers, you can do several regular print head cleanings at a time. However, you can only do a single deep cleaning per day. More than that can warp the nozzles. Check the Epson documentation about this carefully before you consider more than one cleaning cycle of any sort per day.

[KHR]

Just an update. Changed out my ink sets and did two deep cleanings to make sure old ink was out and I know have wonderful looking prints.
Thanks everybody for your suggestions.

[Manfred M]

I'm glad that this ended up working out for you. At a high level, you really do need to print more often, ideally every week or two. As you have discovered, not printing for a long period, the printer and inks can deteriorate. Epson does recommend using up a cartridge within 6 months of installation. I've used my cartridges for just over a year, but that was pushing it.

[KHR]

I'm glad that this ended up working out for you. At a high level, you really do need to print more often, ideally every week or two. As you have discovered, not printing for a long period, the printer and inks can deteriorate. Epson does recommend using up a cartridge within 6 months of installation. I've used my cartridges for just over a year, but that was pushing it.

I definitely have and will print more. I have spent the last couple of weeks reading and watching videos and my Colour management is much better and I getting some of the best results that I ever seen from it. My prints before looked like I was a guy trying to print, not knowing good colour management and came out with just ok images. I’m excited now and look for images I want to print.

[DanK]

Glad it worked out. Some people find printing frustrating, but I find it very enjoyable. It's a real pleasure to watch a successful print come off you own printer.

I completely agree with Manfred about printing frequently. It doesn't have to be anything large. I keep a stock of relatively cheap paper in a few sizes for this purpose.

[KHR]

Glad it worked out. Some people find printing frustrating, but I find it very enjoyable. It's a real pleasure to watch a successful print come off you own printer.

I completely agree with Manfred about printing frequently. It doesn't have to be anything large. I keep a stock of relatively cheap paper in a few sizes for this purpose.

I was one of the frustrated ones. Which is kind of why I didn’t do anything for awhile. But now that I seem to have this mostly figured out I am excited to print my images.

[LenR]

It's a real pleasure to watch a successful print come off you own printer.

Dan, agreed..............

[xpatUSA]

It's a real pleasure to watch a successful print come off you own printer.

While I often say "I don't print", I've been thinking about replacing some store-bought 8 by 10s in the house. By coincidence I did have a go this week on office paper with the Canon MG-8120 all-in-one using blind guesswork in the output department. Came out quite well:



Quick snap under cheap warm LED lighting. SOOC JPEG and color-balanced on the gray** in post - no other adjustments.

** Interesting how the paper borders have a blue cast - can't imagine why ...