New Camera Thoughts

[YossarianXXI]

I'm looking at getting a new camera body. It's a very exciting time because it'll be the first camera That I've purchased through my own research. MY friend picked out the D80 for me when i was starting.

I've been seriously practicing photography for >2 years now on a Nikon D80 with a Nikkor 18.0-135.0 mm f/3.5-5.6 lens & a Nikkor 80-200mm zoom lens . I talked about it in this thread, but for this conversation thought it was prudent to start a thread here.

• self-clean mode - I'm spending a lot of time mitigating sensor dust.

• Tilt Digital Viewfinder

• Low light performance

• Wireless/Bluetooth capability

I've been doing landscapes, many times on or after medium hikes, and that will still be the majority of my shots, but I'm going to try and work on architecture, action (son's soccer & baseball), low light & street photography as well. So, based on the responses in that thread.

So after doing my research I've picked out 3 models i like: Nikon Z50 mirror-less with a FTZ lens adapter, A Nikon D7500, or a Nikon D5600. All these, I think, meet my price point of <$1k for the body. If I were to choose right now I'd probably go with the Z50, but by a whisker. I'm thinking that it's lighter and easier to carry (great for hiking or street photography). The mirrorless seems to be the way the market is heading, and after reading some reviews, it seems to be equal in performance to the D7500.

I wanted to get others' thoughts on this. I've eliminated other brands, just because I have the Nikkor lenses, but if I were going to switch brands, now would probably be the time, before i go out and invest $$$ into a new camera. But it would also be a shame to buy a new camera and not be able to use my 2 pretty good lenses with it, so I'm struggling to justify changing (and the z50 seems like a very good camera so I don't want to change just for the sake of changing.)

I did read this thread about the z50 and I know people have a lot of opinions on mirrorless vs DSLR, and different brands and cameras.

I definitely want something that will last a while. I hope this camera will be my workhorse for the next 10-20 years so i want to buy something good, that travels well and that will take great pictures.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Colin,

I am surprised you have so much trouble with sensor dust, it suggests to me that lens changing technique might need improving.

I change my lens with front of camera body facing downwards, I have prepared my 'new' lens by loosening the rear lens cap. I quickly take off the 'old' lens and place it on a flat surface and transfer the rear cap across, then attach 'new' lens to camera. The amount of time the body is open (to get dust in) is a matter of two seconds - and its facing downwards.

Of course, there's one aspect that may play a large factor for you, the dustiness of the outdoor environment, which looks to possibly be relevant in Colorado. If I am outdoors in wind, I put the wind to my back and I use my waist fitting camera bag, which holds the lenses safely, close to hand in front of me.

The other thing is that in many shots, unless you''re shooting at very narrow apertures (f/16 - f/22), you're unlikely to see dust bunnies. I find that's rarely a problem, even if I'm shooting birds against the sky with a telephoto of 200 mm, as I'm usually at f/8. I see you shoot landscapes, but are you really using those really narrow apertures? Is that necessary?

+++

Regarding camera choice, I have a D7100, so I'd probably go with the D7500 over the D5600, but I have no knowledge of Z50.
My basis for that being ergonomics.

HTH,
Dave

[billtils]

... My basis for that being ergonomics....

Colin

You are familiar with a specific brand and it makes sense to stick with them.

In regards to which model, Dave has given you excellent advice - if there's a decent camera shop anywhere near where you live go and handle the models of interest and see which "fits" best. As an example, it appears form what I've read that lots of people are looking at mirrorless because they are smaller and lighter, but small and light doesn't work for me (I have large hands and like the stability that the weightier body gives me for hand-held shooting).

[YossarianXXI]

Dave & Bill, thanks for the advice.

As for dust - I am trying those techniques. I'm sure I need more practice, but I do as you've said - back to wind, change out as quickly as i can, face-down. I wasn't always doing it correctly, but I researched and learned and I am now doing it that way. I still get the dust.

For my landscapes I do shoot at very small apertures especially when I am trying to get a lot of depth of field. When I've got a scene with less depth (or want to focus on a particular element in the scene) I'll use a bigger aperture

For example, the flower below I'm at f/4 (i think), for the ice crystals i'm at f/8 because i wanted to get the whole scene in focus, but it's fairly flat depth of field (and it was fairly shaded so i needed a quicker shutter speed). But for the town of Ouray, with the ice climbing wall piece in the foreground and town & mountains, i wanted a full depth of field and used f/25.

DSC_1099 by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

DSC_0437 by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

DSC_0397 by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

there are a few decent camera shops so i'll look for one with those models and go check them out

[xpatUSA]

For my landscapes I do shoot at very small apertures especially when I am trying to get a lot of depth of field. When I've got a scene with less depth (or want to focus on a particular element in the scene) I'll use a bigger aperture.

For example, the flower below I'm at f/4 (i think), for the ice crystals i'm at f/8 because i wanted to get the whole scene in focus, but it's fairly flat depth of field (and it was fairly shaded so i needed a quicker shutter speed). But for the town of Ouray, with the ice climbing wall piece in the foreground and town & mountains, i wanted a full depth of field and used f/25.

DSC_1099 by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

DSC_0437 by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

DSC_0397 by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

there are a few decent camera shops so i'll look for one with those models and go check them out

I think too much emphasis is being placed on aperture setting almost as if it were the only arbiter for depth of field. Focus distance is equally, if not more important. As to the last image, f/25 is way too small, IMHO. That is because the actual aperture diameter sets the minimum size of resolved objects in the scene. You could have used f/5.6 ** and focused at infinity or on the farthest peaks and got a satisfactory picture.

** or whatever your lens's sharpest f-number is.

See here for info about that claim:

http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/DOFR.html

Especially see fig. 3 and the text below it which is particularly relevant to your town shot..

For much, much more detail:

http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/TIAOOFe.pdf

Not light reading - but well worth it after a few passes.

I'm thinking that it would be quite worth holding off from that new camera until DOF and related subjects are better understood.

Merklinger knows his stuff and makes the choice of aperture and focusing distance quite easy ...

[Polar01]

Colin if I were shooting today with a D80 or D90 and going to upgrade and stick to Nikon would of the 3 choices go with the Z50. The D7500 and D5600 are getting long in the tooth and I believe are nearing the end of their life cycle. You would still see a big difference over your present camera with either, but I think that the Z is the way to go.

Cheers: Allan

[LenR]

Colin, you mention using small apertures when shooting landscapes. Further to Ted's post above, a point to consider here is that diffraction becomes an issue the smaller the aperture is set. This results in a softening/lack of sharpness in the image. This may not be too apparent if images are on the smaller side. You will find information on this subject in CIC's tutorials.

[xpatUSA]

Colin, you mention using small apertures when shooting landscapes. Further to Ted's post above, a point to consider here is that diffraction becomes an issue the smaller the aperture is set. This results in a softening/lack of sharpness in the image. This may not be too apparent if images are on the smaller side. You will find information on this subject in CIC's tutorials.

Very good point, Len. Colin should note also that the smaller the sensor pixels, i.e. the more the MP, the lower the f-number at which diffraction becomes noticeable.

For example, my 3.4MP Sigma is good up to about f/16 but my 20MP micro fourth-thirds is way below that - f/8 or so. 9um pixels versus 3um ...

[dje]

I'm looking at getting a new camera body. It's a very exciting time because it'll be the first camera That I've purchased through my own research. MY friend picked out the D80 for me when i was starting.

I've been seriously practicing photography for >2 years now on a Nikon D80 with a Nikkor 18.0-135.0 mm f/3.5-5.6 lens & a Nikkor 80-200mm zoom lens . I talked about it in this thread, but for this conversation thought it was prudent to start a thread here.

• self-clean mode - I'm spending a lot of time mitigating sensor dust.

• Tilt Digital Viewfinder

• Low light performance

• Wireless/Bluetooth capability

I've been doing landscapes, many times on or after medium hikes, and that will still be the majority of my shots, but I'm going to try and work on architecture, action (son's soccer & baseball), low light & street photography as well. So, based on the responses in that thread.

So after doing my research I've picked out 3 models i like: Nikon Z50 mirror-less with a FTZ lens adapter, A Nikon D7500, or a Nikon D5600. All these, I think, meet my price point of <$1k for the body. If I were to choose right now I'd probably go with the Z50, but by a whisker. I'm thinking that it's lighter and easier to carry (great for hiking or street photography). The mirrorless seems to be the way the market is heading, and after reading some reviews, it seems to be equal in performance to the D7500.

I wanted to get others' thoughts on this. I've eliminated other brands, just because I have the Nikkor lenses, but if I were going to switch brands, now would probably be the time, before i go out and invest $$$ into a new camera. But it would also be a shame to buy a new camera and not be able to use my 2 pretty good lenses with it, so I'm struggling to justify changing (and the z50 seems like a very good camera so I don't want to change just for the sake of changing.)

I did read this thread about the z50 and I know people have a lot of opinions on mirrorless vs DSLR, and different brands and cameras.

I definitely want something that will last a while. I hope this camera will be my workhorse for the next 10-20 years so i want to buy something good, that travels well and that will take great pictures.

Hi Colin

One thing you should check is the auto focus compatibility of your current lenses with a new DSLR or Z50 with an FTZ adaptor. The D80 has a focus motor which operates a screw on the lens flange for auto focus. Modern cameras and lenses no longer use this. I think the 18-135 is probably an AF-S lens which doesn't use a focus motor in camera so it should be OK. However the 80-200 may be an older model which relies on the focus motor for auto focus. Have a look at your exact model and check this Nikon spreadsheet out.

I would lean towards the Z50 if I were in your shoes but bear in mind that you won't get that much of an advantage size and weight wise if you stick with your current lenses and FTZ adaptor. You really need to go for Z mount lenses to get more of an advantage in this department. As far as I know, at present Nikon only has two Z mount lenses designed specifically for the APS-C format of the Z50 - a 16-50mm and a 50-250mm. You can use any Z lens on the Z50 of course but for full frame lenses the price goes up.

Dave

[rpcrowe]

If you can afford a new camera without selling your present camera, using a dual camera setup should totally mitigate your dust problems. Having two cameras with the two lenses attached, you can switch focal lengths without needing to remove a lens and risk dust on your sensor...

[Tronhard]

One point about changing lenses - ALWAYS turn off the camera before removing the lens or cover. If the sensor is powered it attracts dust like a magnet. All the other suggestions, like tilting the front down, do it in shelter and away from dusty environments are obviously important too.

Some lenses that extend will exhibit more bellows effect than others -sucking dust from the joints as the lens expands and contracts and pushing it back into the body. I almost always shoot using the viewfinder, but if you use the back LCD screen predominantly to compose, then the mirror is up and the shutter is open, and thus not protecting the sensor from dust coming from the lens.

[DanK]

Ted,

I think your post #5 should start a new thread. It suggests a very different approach to DOF and specifically to placing the point of focus. Too complex and important to be buried in the middle of a thread about an entirely different topic.

Dan

[xpatUSA]

Ted,

I think your post #5 should start a new thread. It suggests a very different approach to DOF and specifically to placing the point of focus. Too complex and important to be buried in the middle of a thread about an entirely different topic.

Dan

Thanks for the suggestion, Dan. I've contacted Moderation ...

[William W]

....One thing you should check is the auto focus compatibility of your current lenses with a new DSLR or Z50 with an FTZ adaptor...

Do this first.

WW

[Manfred M]

I think too much emphasis is being placed on aperture setting almost as if it were the only arbiter for depth of field. Focus distance is equally, if not more important. As to the last image, f/25 is way too small, IMHO. That is because the actual aperture diameter sets the minimum size of resolved objects in the scene. You could have used f/5.6 ** and focused at infinity or on the farthest peaks and got a satisfactory picture.

** or whatever your lens's sharpest f-number is.

See here for info about that claim:

http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/DOFR.html

Especially see fig. 3 and the text below it which is particularly relevant to your town shot..

For much, much more detail:

http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/TIAOOFe.pdf

Not light reading - but well worth it after a few passes.

I'm thinking that it would be quite worth holding off from that new camera until DOF and related subjects are better understood.

Merklinger knows his stuff and makes the choice of aperture and focusing distance quite easy ...

Ted is correct on this point, BUT there are a number of "gotchas" here. The theory / math in Merklinger's documents are correct, but the practical considerations make it difficult to do in practice.

First of all, many modern amateur cameras and lenses are designed for autofocus. The wonderfully accurate ground glass and split screen focusing tools of manual cameras are gone, replaced by information displays which may or may not have any tools to indicate where focus has been achieved. Focus peaking (mirrorless cameras) and focus indicators (more advanced DSLRs) are as good as it gets.

To do better one has to use an external aid, like shooting tethered to a large screen (not all that practical outside of the studio). Depth of field markings are no long shown on most modern lenses and the distance readings on lenses are at best moderately accurate. In order to achieve fast autofocus, the focus ring throw is often in the order of 90°, no where near the focus throw of almost 300° in some of my older lenses, making accurate focusing challenging.

Autofocus modes like "matrix" uses algorithms to calculate the optimal focus plane distance, so it is anyone's guess where it really is. Single point focus (which is my default focusing method) gets close, but short of using an external measure and depth of field tables, much of this is guess work.

Theory is great, but the equipment really needs to be built in a way that it can be used.

[YossarianXXI]

There's a lot in this thread, so I'm not sure where to respond, so i'll start here

Hi Colin

One thing you should check is the auto focus compatibility of your current lenses with a new DSLR or Z50 with an FTZ adaptor. The D80 has a focus motor which operates a screw on the lens flange for auto focus. Modern cameras and lenses no longer use this. I think the 18-135 is probably an AF-S lens which doesn't use a focus motor in camera so it should be OK. However the 80-200 may be an older model which relies on the focus motor for auto focus. Have a look at your exact model and check this Nikon spreadsheet out.

MY 2 lenses are:

AF-S Nikkor Zoom 70-300mm 4.5-5.6 G ED
AF-S Nikkor Zoom 18-135mm 3.5-5.6 G ED

Based on the spreadsheet linked, I believe both the D7500 & the D5600 are AF compatible. The Spreadsheet doesn't have the Z series though.

I did find this on Nikon's website, though

Z series Lens compatible by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

So, unless I'm reading this wrong, my lenses are AF compatible with the D5600, D7500 & Z50 (w/ FTZ adapter) so i'm ok with whatever I choose.

That the next thing i should do is head over to a Camera Shop and Put a Z50, D7500 & D5600 in my hands and see which one i like best

-----

As for using the small aperture - I am pretty sure I understand. That using small aperture causes diffraction effects (something i know but wasn't putting to practical use here) and is trying for an unnecessary amount of detail since it's indistinguishable by the human eye. That focusing at infinity and using a wider aperture (the ideal lens aperture) gives better results, and has the bonus of sensor dust disappearing. (as an aside, last summer i was toying a lot with both waterfalls/moving water & sunrise/sunset shots, both of which it is necessary to use as small of an aperture as possible to get longer shutter speeds & the sun rays. I think part of my habit of using tiny apertures was picked up last summer)

However, Manfred warns that opening the aperture to wide and focusing at infinity is mathematically possible, but because of the automatic controls on modern cameras, doesn't work as well in practice as maybe theoretically possible.

So, when shooting vast landscapes like i do, while every shot is different, a good rule of thumb is to use a small but not excessively small aperture (many times somewhere in the f/10-f/16 range, at least with the lens I have) unless i'm doing something more specialized, like running water or sunset/sunrise shots. This will help me avoid sensor dust artifacts and the shot will be plenty sharp (and sharper because i'll be avoiding diffraction effects)

[dje]

There's a lot in this thread, so I'm not sure where to respond, so i'll start here



MY 2 lenses are:

AF-S Nikkor Zoom 70-300mm 4.5-5.6 G ED
AF-S Nikkor Zoom 18-135mm 3.5-5.6 G ED

Based on the spreadsheet linked, I believe both the D7500 & the D5600 are AF compatible. The Spreadsheet doesn't have the Z series though.

I did find this on Nikon's website, though

Z series Lens compatible by Yossarian_XXI, on Flickr

So, unless I'm reading this wrong, my lenses are AF compatible with the D5600, D7500 & Z50 (w/ FTZ adapter) so i'm ok with whatever I choose.

That the next thing i should do is head over to a Camera Shop and Put a Z50, D7500 & D5600 in my hands and see which one i like best

-----

That's good Colin. You mentioned an 80-200 but if it's an AF-S 70-300 it should be fine. I actually have that lens myself.

Dave

[YossarianXXI]

I mixed something up in my head when i wrote that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[lunaticitizen]

If you chose either the Z 50 or the D7500, you're in for a treat since the sensor in those cameras doubles the SNR of your D80 at base ISO, resulting in much cleaner images than what you're accustomed to.

But if I were you, I would wait until there's a sale and go straight to the Z 5. I don't know how much cheaper it would be compared to now, though. Currently it's 1300 USD on B&H.

[YossarianXXI]

If you chose either the Z 50 or the D7500, you're in for a treat since the sensor in those cameras doubles the SNR of your D80 at base ISO, resulting in much cleaner images than what you're accustomed to.

But if I were you, I would wait until there's a sale and go straight to the Z 5. I don't know how much cheaper it would be compared to now, though. Currently it's 1300 USD on B&H.

My local shop is having a sale

The Z5 w/ FTZ mount is $1400

The Z50 w/ FTZ mount is $960


I'm not sure i can mentally justify the extra $440