Things looking less good for DSLRs?

[DanK]

I haven't paid much attention to the "DSLRs are dead because mirrorless is here" stuff on the internet. It seemed like a lot of hype to me. However, this really stopped me in my tracks:

https://www.canonrumors.com/recently...ued-ef-lenses/

I own two of the now-to-be-discontinued lenses, and one of them, the 70-200 f/4 IS, is one of my most used lenses. Given that I recently bought a new DSLR, this makes me a tad nervous.

There are lots of adapters to fit lenses designed for DLSRs onto mirrorless cameras. From what I have read, the ones from Canon work flawlessly. I wonder if there are or will be any that go in the reverse direction, allowing one to fit lenses designed for mirrorless cameras to DSLRs?

[Manfred M]

I wonder if there are or will be any that go in the reverse direction, allowing one to fit lenses designed for mirrorless cameras to DSLRs?

Short answer is no.

The flange to sensor plane is fixed for any camera model and that will be consistent for model to model, by sensor type. Nicely said, any Canon full-frame camera DSLR will have the same flange to sensor distance, regardless of the specific model.

Enter the mirrorless camera. Without the mirror box and all those moving bits, the flange to sensor distance will be a lot shorter, which has some optical advantages (different wavelengths of light will hit the sensor closer together than in a DSLR), so mirrorless lenses will be sharper than DSLR lenses.

To fit a DSLR lens onto a mirrorless body is relatively easy as all the manufacturer has to do is make an adapter that is little more than a hollow tube with some electrical / data connections to provide the same flange to sensor distance as on the DSLR.

Going the other way simply won't work as the lens will end up focusing well ahead of the sensor.

[lunaticitizen]

Pentax is the only major camera manufacturer who insists 'SLR or bust'. Everyone else has introduced mirrorless system.

I just checked that Canon haven't released any new EF-mount lens for more than two years. Maybe right now they want to concentrate on the new RF-mount system; but would they want to continue supporting multiple systems in this shrinking market with the same size of R&D team? I very much doubt that.

[rpcrowe]

Yes Canon DSLR lenses do work on Sony (at least) mirrorless cameras but, I wouldn't describe them working "flawlessly". I purchased my first mirrorless camera (Sony A6500) with a Sigma MC-11 adapter. My plans were to use the Canon SLR lenses that I owned with the MC-11. Although some lenses worked pretty well (such as the Canon 85mm f/1.8), others didn't work at all such as my 100mm f/2.8 (non-L) Macro lens. I purchased a used Metabones adapter but, didn't have a whole lot of success with that adapter either.

I purchased my first Sony native e-mount lens (50mm f/1.8 OSS) and was surprised at how well this relatively inexpensive lens focused. I then bought the Sony 85mm f/1.8 and the focus of this lens was superlative on the A6500 also.

I did not switch over to Sony totally because I never found a decent mid-range zoom lens with a constant f/2.8 aperture. However, when I found the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 for Sony, I was hooked and I sold all of my Canon DSLR gear while I could still get good prices for it.

There are many things that I like about the Sony mirrorless system but, my favorite is the eye auto focus (both human and animal). I now have three Sony lenses and the Tamron plus several legacy manual focus lenses and I am quite happy with my A7iii and A6600.

I wish that my A7iii and A6600 cameras did have one feature of the Sony A9ii: that is being able to record an audio comment and link it to an image. I can live without this capability but, I had that capability and loved it in my first digital camera, an Olympus which I purchased in 1995.

BTW: the Canon 70-200mm f/4L IS lens was one of my favorite lenses also. While I like the Sony 70-200mm f/4G OSS lens, it doesn't quite stack up to the Canon version.

[xpatUSA]

When they brought out their first mirrorless ILCs a few years ago, Sigma muddied the waters by retaining their 44mm registration distance SA mount for those models! Now, just to irritate those faithful souls who kept their SA-mount lenses for the new cameras, they have discontinued production of SA-mount and joined the L-mount alliance for their new models.

The above is likely of little interest to canonistas but I do sympathize re: the EF dilemma, the feeling of abandonment is no fun at all.

[pschlute]

Pentax is the only major camera manufacturer who insists 'SLR or bust'. Everyone else has introduced mirrorless system.

Being the smallest of the three DSLR manufacturers by a long way they had no option. Although they introduced a mirrorless model ten years ago, they did not have the resources to develop and compete with the output of mirrorless designs we have seen in the last 5 years or so. Given the decline in DSLR/Mirrorless versus cellphone use, if they had done I believe they would be no more.

Pentax launched a much delayed new aps-c camera last week. The early reviews have been very positive.

I use a Pentax K-1 Full frame DSLR. With the basic mount unchanged for 40 years it means I can still use my old film lenses on it

[DanK]

I just checked that Canon haven't released any new EF-mount lens for more than two years. Maybe right now they want to concentrate on the new RF-mount system; but would they want to continue supporting multiple systems in this shrinking market with the same size of R&D team? I very much doubt that.

Canon announced some time ago that they had stopped developing new EF lenses. That didn't bother me, as they offer a very large array of excellent lenses, with several different options in some ranges. Discontinuing production of lenses is quite a different matter. What's particularly unsettling is some of the lenses they are dropping. The EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM II is a new lens, introduced only 3 years ago, and it is one of the two best of their many 70-200 EF lenses. It's what I would have purchased if my 70-200 f/4 IS version I were damaged beyond repair.

Yes Canon DSLR lenses do work on Sony (at least) mirrorless cameras but, I wouldn't describe them working "flawlessly".

I meant within brand, not across brands. To each his or her own, but now that the R5 is out, I have no interest in switching from Canon to Sony. From little I have read, EF lenses work flawlessly on Canon's R bodies if you use Canon's own adapter. If I were forced to go mirrorless now, I would probably buy the R5, even though I don't really want 45 MPX. The R6 is only 20 MPX, which is less than I want for some large prints and severely cropped images, and it lacks a second card slot, I think.

It's been less than a year since I upgraded from a 5D III to a 5D IV, while the IV was on a month-long sale. It's a fabulous camera, much better than the 12 inches behind the viewfinder, and the net cost of the upgrade was about 1/3 the cost of guying an R5, so I was a happy camper. But if lenses start becoming scarce...

[billtils]

Is this (no new DSLR lenses, whether shiny new examples of existing ones or something amzing that may have cropped up in a few years from now) really all that much of an issue for existing owners? Good glass is good glass no matter the date that it came off the production line and we probably have the lenses we want by now anyway.

If DSLR sales are falling and mirrorless ones rising then it makes sense for the manufacturers to match the resources given to lens production to those given to the bodies.

Or to put it another way, I'm happy with the gear I have and neither need nor want anything mirrorless, but if I were just starting out I'd probably have to go there and would be narked if I couldn't get the lenses I want because the manufacturer was devoting resources to yesterday's technology.

[DanK]

It’s only an issue for me if I want an additional lens I don’t have and can’t get (unlikely) or one of my extant lenses gets damaged and can’t be replaced. My 70-200 was damaged once when a strong gust of wind blew my tripod over and the kit landed, lens first, on concrete. That time, fortunately, it was reparable at a reasonable cost. I’m enough of a klutz that further damage isn’t so unlikely...


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[Manfred M]

It’s only an issue for me if I want an additional lens I don’t have and can’t get (unlikely) or one of my extant lenses gets damaged and can’t be replaced. My 70-200 was damaged once when a strong gust of wind blew my tripod over and the kit landed, lens first, on concrete. That time, fortunately, it was reparable at a reasonable cost. I’m enough of a klutz that further damage isn’t so unlikely...


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There is always the used lens market. People converting to mirrorless will dump their old gear, including lenses and they can often be picked up at a reasonable price.

[DanK]

Good point.


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[rpcrowe]

There are often small differences between lenses that are essentially the same which often go unnoticed. One of my absolute favorite lenses for the Canon DSLR system was the 70-200mm f/4L IS! When I gravitated to Sony, I replaced the Canon version with a Sony 70-200mm f/4.0 G OSS lens - same glass right?

Not totally! Although the Canon lens might be a tad sharper, the big difference is that I could get very good image quality when using a Canon 1.4x TC. This setup was especially good for travel since the 1.4x TC resulted in a very decent 112-320mm f/5.6 (or 157-448mm on a crop sensor camera) lens at the minimum extra weight of 7.9 ounces or 220 grams...

Although you can use a Sony (no third party equivalents available) teleconverter on their 70-200mm f/2.8 GM lens, no teleconverter is available for the Sony f/4.0 G OSS lens.

Another difference is that there are several brands of teleconverters available to use on the Canon lens (Sigma, etc.) which are quite a bit less expensive than the Canon.

Sure, teleconverters are not ideal but, the additional focal length vs. weight ratio between a TC and a second longer lens made it a good travel choice for me.

[Tronhard]

Canon announced some time ago that they had stopped developing new EF lenses. That didn't bother me, as they offer a very large array of excellent lenses, with several different options in some ranges.

The R6 is only 20 MPX, which is less than I want for some large prints and severely cropped images, and it lacks a second card slot, I think...

I think that there is an enormous amount of good or excellent condition Canon lenses out there, and some of those will be released onto the market from that constituency that moves from the EF to the RF mount as they upgrade to Canon MILCs. So, while Canon may not be making any more, I think if one really wants a good EF lens: between what's new in stock and the second-hand or refurbished market, one can still get a great EF lens at a good price, but don't wait forever...

As to the R6... I got two of them and I love them. The sensor has about 1 EV better performance in DR compared to the R5 - not surprisingly considering its pixels are fewer but bigger. It DOES have dual SD cards slots, and this is one point of advantage over the R5, which has one SD and one Express CF card slot, requiring investment in VERY expensive card or cards. That configuration allows for the massive download from 8k video, but is of no benefit to me as I don't shoot video at all. Also the price of the R6 was about 2/3 of the R5.

As you alluded to, a lot depends on what one is going to produce. I don't produce large, detailed prints, so I don't need the 50MP for my purposes, saving me drive and memory capacity on my computer. So far I have not been disappointed. However, as a predominantly super long lens user, what I would like to see is an R7 (rumoured) that has an APS-C sensor, preferably about 40MP, with IBIS and AEAF.

Yes, the FF sensor will be better at wider angles and generally show less noise, but for me it's about pixel density for the kind of subjects I shoot. A crop sensor does in-camera what I would have to do after the event if, for various reasons, I cannot get close enough to my subject to fill the frame.

If I was to crop a FF Canon image down to the same FoV as the APS-C sensor's it would reduce the pixel count by a factor of 2.56, to that a 50MP sensor would effectively yield about 17MP, which is not brilliant. Conversely, an APS-C sensor 40MP would have the same pixel density as that of a cropped 100MP FF unit, for which I don't want to pay either the cost, the handling capacity, or have to deal with the time it takes to download into the card.

[billtils]

As to the R6... I got two of them.

Just curious - why 2 of the same body?

[Tronhard]

Just curious - why 2 of the same body?

I have a hate of changing lenses in the field, both for the time it takes, plus the opportunity for material to get into the body and put dust on the sensor when the body is open. When I do change lenses, it is in the cleanest environment I can manage: the camera is powered off, pointed down, lens removed, new one (lens cap off) is inserted and then the removed lens is capped. So far, in my 20-odd years of using cameras, I have not had to clean a sensor. This is particularly true for MILCs, as there is no shutter+mirror combination to shield the sensor from the outside.

BTW, I got an awesome deal on the two bodies plus 2 RF lenses. It turned out that just before Christmas Canon offered two concurrent deals: one was a % off, and another a cash rebate of $300 if you bought a lens with a body. A camera store that I had bought my first cameras from 40-odd years ago gave me a further deal on the bundle for being a good customer, so it was worth it.

As an aside, it is also very easy to switch between bodies with exactly the same control layout. I wish Canon would adopt the feature Nikon has on my Df's - the ability to download the settings to the card and upload them to the second body, it would save a lot of time!

[DanK]

Trev,

I agree, the R5 has a lot of bells and whistles that don't interest me in the least, and the CFexpress slot is just one of them. What I really want is something that is midway between the R5 and R6. I want the little LCD on the top, which I find very useful. And I'd like somewhere around 30 MPX. I do print large; I print A3+ routinely and 17 x 22 (roughly A2) sometimes, and particularly if one crops, that's not ideal with 20 MP. In fact, I upraded from the 5D III to the5 D IV primarily for three reasons: better dynamic range, somewhat better noise performance, and an extra 8 MPX.

I'm not about to run out and buy a new body now, and by the time I get to that point, the options will be different.

I agree with you about APS-C. For me, the main use of APS-C is for bug macros; at or near 1:1, the higher pixel density means more pixels on the bug, and the somewhat lighter body is a help. I currently do that with a 7D first generation, which I bought years ago as a refurb. I no longer do enough of that to justify a new body.

Dan

[Tronhard]

Hi Dan!

I really wish Canon would bring out a still photographer camera, customized to what we specifically want and with features focused on still photography. For example a unit without the CF express cards but a larger FF sensor (although rumour has it that they are planning a 100+MP FF sensor in the foreseeable future). Lose the video buttons and add another one that can be customized.

One thing that sounds interesting is to lose the conventional shutter button and replace it with a sensor pad - apparently Canon has a patent out on such a device - I'm not sure of the details of that so that's as much as I know. One thing that such a device would allow is for finger print recognition to stop the camera being used if it was stolen.

[Tronhard]

Trev,

In fact, I upraded from the 5D III to the5 D IV primarily for three reasons: better dynamic range, somewhat better noise performance, and an extra 8 MPX.

I'm not about to run out and buy a new body now, and by the time I get to that point, the options will be different.
Dan

Ah... I must admit I rarely sell my camera gear. Consequently, I have amassed a decent collection of gear that dates back almost 40 years to when I started with film. I have sold most of the film gear, but I have digital cameras going back to 2000 and they still work perfectly. Almost everything is in its original boxes and in prime condition. I might add that I still shoot with a lot of my older gear and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. Not for everyone, but it works for me... Most of my menagerie...

[lunaticitizen]

Canon announced some time ago that they had stopped developing new EF lenses. That didn't bother me, as they offer a very large array of excellent lenses, with several different options in some ranges. Discontinuing production of lenses is quite a different matter. What's particularly unsettling is some of the lenses they are dropping. The EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM II is a new lens, introduced only 3 years ago, and it is one of the two best of their many 70-200 EF lenses. It's what I would have purchased if my 70-200 f/4 IS version I were damaged beyond repair.

I confess that I didn't really read the fine print when I bought things for myself. I don't really know how long camera manufacturers will continue servicing lenses that are already out of production. If the lens is beyond repair then I agree you're in trouble unless you dive into used market as Manfred already mentioned.

But as I also mentioned in my previous post I can see Canon leaving their EF-mount system (camera and lens) as soon as they can. It's expensive to maintain a separate line in their factory for an obsolete system.

This reminds me of a certain piece of open source software that was supposed to be supported by the vendor for at least a decade, but then they suddenly declared -just two years after the release- that they will retire the software this year, leaving their users scrambling to find a replacement.

[Tronhard]

It occurs that there may be more to this than just Canon deciding to decamp from producing their EF lenses. It may well have something to do with the production of lens components and their logistics created by the pandemic and also a couple of fires over the last year or so that have really changed the production landscape. It makes sense that if there are production shortages that they will give priority to their primary camera line-up.

That said, there an enormous volume of great EF glass out in the marketplace and sitting in various stockpiles. Canon recently celebrated producing 150 MILLION EF and RF lenses
https://www.canon.co.nz/about-canon/...nses-milestone. That is a lot of glass that is not all suddenly going to disappear off the face of the earth.