Calibration and ICC profiles

[CatherineA]

I have access to a i1 Display Pro to calibrate my screen. I have just started printing my images at home and the colours are always a little off from what I see on the screen. So I used the i1 Studio to both calibrate the screen and profile the paper. Now the colours are really off. I have read a number of articles on how to use the device and watched a number of videos and get very different results by following the different authors but haven’t got a good result yet.

Could anyone suggest a good resource on calibration and profiling? It doesn’t have to be specifically about this device, about the topic generally would also be a good place for me to start,. It seems most people have no trouble with this but I sure do. Thank you

[xpatUSA]

Hello Catherine,

Although my monitor remains stubbornly un-calibrated, I would comment that an ICC profile of type 'monitor' expects the monitor color output to be perfectly accurate.

So, I'm wondering why the title mentions "ICC profiles"?

[DanK]

Catherine,

Normally, I use an i1 to calibrate the screen but use an ICC profile supplied by the paper manufacturer for my printer and a specific paper.

Getting the two to coordinate depends on using the software correctly. From what software are you printing, and on what printer?

I print from Lightroom. Here are the steps:

1. Install the ICC profile for the paper into the operating system.
2. Under "profile" in the color management section of the print module, select "other". This will display all of the ICCs installed into the operating system. Make sure the one you want is checked. That will make it show up in Lightroom. This only has to be done once.
3. In the same place, pick the profile for the paper you use.
4. Turn off color management in the printer's firmware. How you do this depends on the operating system and the printer. I print using a Canon printer under Windows. Under Windows, the firmware is accessed via the "properties" button in the print dialog. With Canon printers, you set color matching to "none".

Dan

[billtils]

Catherine


What follows is based on my personal experience and should not be taken as expert advice, but with that "health warning" ...

The biggest advantage I found in having a calibrated display was to get an on-screen brightness that matches the brightness of the image that comes out of the printer. However, colour is another issue and quite dfferent to brightness.

The electronic file that comes out of your camera needs a translator to convert the file to a coloured image, and to get the same colour image from screen to screen and screen to paper requires a match in the language used to set the colours on your display and print - if they are speaking different languages (or the same language but a poor translation) then the colours in your print will not match those on your screen. The normal profile for screens is sRGB, developed by HP and Microsoft in 1996 with the goal of establishing consistency of colour reproduction in screens no matter who made them. There are other "standards" for screens, but that's another story.

However, your post is about printing, and probably the most important factor is that papers aren't screens and each needs an additional translation to match what your editing software does in transferring the electronic blueprint of your screen image to one for the paper - its ICC profile. Add to this that the nature of the paper includes its own colour (how white is white ...) and even with closely matched ICC profiles different papers can produce different looking pictures - one of the delights of printing is finding out which paper gives the most pleasing print!

To move from Bill's world view to something more objective, there's a lot of good stuff right here on CIC: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/co...t-printing.htm

Just remember that a good photograph is one that you like, screen calibration is not going to affect that but printing will. Finally, none of the "translators" converts the digital file from the camera to exactly what your eye saw but they all do that to the extent that it looks that way ...

[Manfred M]

Catherine - the one aspect of colour management that much of the online stuff ignores are the lighting conditions you are working and displaying under. If you are working to print, having your computer in a location that has consistent and relatively low lighting are critical. It is generally recommended that the area around your workstation is below 40 lux and your screen should be set up to be between 80 - 120 candela per square meter (the i1 lets you set that).

The other aspect is the light you are reviewing the prints under. You should be assessing the prints under the same lighting conditions you will be viewing them under. Another standard a lot of commercial labs use is 150 lux, using full spectrum lighting. This goes up to 200 lux for prints being viewed under gallery lighting.

You will never get a 100% match between what you see on your screen and what you see on your print. Your screen is an RGB, transmitted light, additive process while your print is effectively a CMYK, reflected light, subtractive process.

I would be interested in your print workflow; which printer and paper are you using? Paper manufacturers do supply ICC profiles that need to be part of your workflow, and while you can create custom profiles, these are a fairly advanced process that I would skip for now as one can get problematic profiles if your work flow is not 100%. Settings in your print software as well as in your printer settings are critical as well.

[CatherineA]

.... I'm wondering why the title mentions "ICC profiles"?

Hi Ted,
It’s because some printers believe that the printer itself needs to be calibrated. With the i1 Studio you can calibrate your monitor but you can also calibrate your printer. To do that you print out a sheet of coloured squares and then run the device over the squares. The idea is to check the difference between what colour is suppose to be there and what is actually there. You can then make a preset from the reading. This is done even after you choose the ICC profile for the paper you are using which for me was Epson baryta. So, you are making a custom ICC profile.

If I misunderstood you though, sorry!

I thought going that extra step might be what I needed but I just made things unnecessarily complicated. I should instead have improved my workspace.

[CatherineA]

Catherine,

Normally, I use an i1 to calibrate the screen but use an ICC profile supplied by the paper manufacturer for my printer and a specific paper.

Getting the two to coordinate depends on using the software correctly. From what software are you printing, and on what printer?

I print from Lightroom. Here are the steps:

1. Install the ICC profile for the paper into the operating system.
2. Under "profile" in the color management section of the print module, select "other". This will display all of the ICCs installed into the operating system. Make sure the one you want is checked. That will make it show up in Lightroom. This only has to be done once.
3. In the same place, pick the profile for the paper you use.
4. Turn off color management in the printer's firmware. How you do this depends on the operating system and the printer. I print using a Canon printer under Windows. Under Windows, the firmware is accessed via the "properties" button in the print dialog. With Canon printers, you set color matching to "none".

Dan

Thank you very much Dan, that is really helpful. If you take that approach then I know that I don’t need to try and make a custom ICC. The problem must lie elsewhere and I think that it is my workspace. I need to make changing it a priority.

[CatherineA]

Catherine


What follows is based on my personal experience and should not be taken as expert advice, but with that "health warning" ...

The biggest advantage I found in having a calibrated display was to get an on-screen brightness that matches the brightness of the image that comes out of the printer. However, colour is another issue and quite dfferent to brightness.

The electronic file that comes out of your camera needs a translator to convert the file to a coloured image, and to get the same colour image from screen to screen and screen to paper requires a match in the language used to set the colours on your display and print - if they are speaking different languages (or the same language but a poor translation) then the colours in your print will not match those on your screen. The normal profile for screens is sRGB, developed by HP and Microsoft in 1996 with the goal of establishing consistency of colour reproduction in screens no matter who made them. There are other "standards" for screens, but that's another story.

However, your post is about printing, and probably the most important factor is that papers aren't screens and each needs an additional translation to match what your editing software does in transferring the electronic blueprint of your screen image to one for the paper - its ICC profile. Add to this that the nature of the paper includes its own colour (how white is white ...) and even with closely matched ICC profiles different papers can produce different looking pictures - one of the delights of printing is finding out which paper gives the most pleasing print!

To move from Bill's world view to something more objective, there's a lot of good stuff right here on CIC: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/co...t-printing.htm

Just remember that a good photograph is one that you like, screen calibration is not going to affect that but printing will. Finally, none of the "translators" converts the digital file from the camera to exactly what your eye saw but they all do that to the extent that it looks that way ...

Thanks Bill! Lots of good information there for me!

[CatherineA]

Catherine - the one aspect of colour management that much of the online stuff ignores are the lighting conditions you are working and displaying under. If you are working to print, having your computer in a location that has consistent and relatively low lighting are critical. It is generally recommended that the area around your workstation is below 40 lux and your screen should be set up to be between 80 - 120 candela per square meter (the i1 lets you set that).

The other aspect is the light you are reviewing the prints under. You should be assessing the prints under the same lighting conditions you will be viewing them under. Another standard a lot of commercial labs use is 150 lux, using full spectrum lighting. This goes up to 200 lux for prints being viewed under gallery lighting.

You will never get a 100% match between what you see on your screen and what you see on your print. Your screen is an RGB, transmitted light, additive process while your print is effectively a CMYK, reflected light, subtractive process.

I would be interested in your print workflow; which printer and paper are you using? Paper manufacturers do supply ICC profiles that need to be part of your workflow, and while you can create custom profiles, these are a fairly advanced process that I would skip for now as one can get problematic profiles if your work flow is not 100%. Settings in your print software as well as in your printer settings are critical as well.

Hi Manfred,
I have access to a very nice printer, an Epson Surecolor P900. I was using Epson Baryta legacy. The weak link I think is my workspace. There are too many colours. The lighting is a bit inconsistent but maybe that bit of inconsistency is causing me grief.

[xpatUSA]

Hi Ted,
It’s because some printers believe that the printer itself needs to be calibrated. With the i1 Studio you can calibrate your monitor but you can also calibrate your printer. To do that you print out a sheet of coloured squares and then run the device over the squares. The idea is to check the difference between what colour is suppose to be there and what is actually there. You can then make a preset from the reading. This is done even after you choose the ICC profile for the paper you are using which for me was Epson baryta. So, you are making a custom ICC profile.

Thanks, Catherine, now I understand.

[Manfred M]

Hi Manfred,
I have access to a very nice printer, an Epson Surecolor P900. I was using Epson Baryta legacy. The weak link I think is my workspace. There are too many colours. The lighting is a bit inconsistent but maybe that bit of inconsistency is causing me grief.

The P900 is a very solid printer and I like the paper you are using (which unfortunately is no longer being manufactured). The advantage is that the paper profile is built into the printer and as long as you have downloaded the profiles from the Epson site, that should make your job a lot easier than working with third party paper suppliers.

Another option you might want to look at is the Printmaking 1: Foundation course that is being offered at SPAO this summer (it starts in 2 weeks). Michael Tardioli is teaching it and he has been a custom print maker for over 30 years. I don't know his approach to the course as I have not taken it from him. I'm not sure which printers SPAO is using currently, but the last time I was there they were using the P800, which is the P900's predecessor.

https://spao.ca/printmaking-i-foundation

[CatherineA]

Another option you might want to look at is the Printmaking 1: Foundation course that is being offered at SPAO this summer (it starts in 2 weeks). Michael Tardioli is teaching it and he has been a custom print maker for over 30 years. I don't know his approach to the course as I have not taken it from him. I'm not sure which printers SPAO is using currently, but the last time I was there they were using the P800, which is the P900's predecessor.

https://spao.ca/printmaking-i-foundation

Thanks, that is something I would like to do at some time. It is in studio and I have only done online courses recently so I'm not sure that I will it this time round.

[Manfred M]

Thanks, that is something I would like to do at some time. It is in studio and I have only done online courses recently so I'm not sure that I will it this time round.

It's not in the studio, but rather in the print lab, which is upstairs in the SPAO building.

That being said, it is live. Doing a print class online is not particularly useful, in my view.