Lightroom Gradient Filter problem

[CIC]

Hello

I am having some problems while trying to apply the Gradient filter using luminosity masking in Lr.

As I place the gradient mask at the horizon and try to darken the sky, a thin portion (line-like) of the foreground along the horizon line also gets darkened significantly.

Is there any way to avoid this?

Example: https://500px.com/photo/1034745936/b...-roy-choudhury

[Manfred M]

Would you mind posting the original image without any edits applied? When trying to figure out what went wrong, it is best to see what you started with.

[CIC]

Thank you @Manfred for replying.

Here is the JPEG from the unedited RAW file.

[Manfred M]

When I look at the original, there is a dark area on the horizon, separating the sea and the sky. That also appears to be the case in the edited version, although we see a shift; the water is bright all the way to the horizon and not dark as in the original.

My suspicion is that the alignment of these two areas has some overlap in the edited version and this is causing the effect that you are seeing. Lightroom is not a precision, pixel level tool when it comes to selecting areas precisely. For that level of fine control, Photoshop, rather than Lightroom would be the preferred method of addressing this issues as its selection tools are far more precise and can be worked down at the pixel level.

[CIC]

Thank you so much Manfred for your kind advice.

1. Do you think that I should have used luminosity masking (I found a free panel from Greg Benz) to avoid this?
2. If so, what type of edits should I do in Lr?

In this context, let me inform you that I have started working on learning luminosity masking following your advice in one of my previous threads. I am grateful to you for that advice.
Sadly, I could not come across any comprehensive tutorial for the same on YouTube. The popular one by Greg Benz is very expensive when converted to my currency (not to mention Lockdown made things worse). So, I am going through whatever free tutorials are available on YouTube on this.

[Manfred M]

I am not the best person to ask about Lightroom / Adobe Camera Raw (they are essentially identical) as I generally to the bare minimum I need to from a raw conversion standpoint and I then do virtually all my work in Photoshop. I find Lightroom slow and inefficient for the type of work I do.

When it comes to Luminosity Masks, I use the functionality in Photoshop's "Select Color" tool. While not perfect, it has a significant advantage over the plug-ins found from various internet sources; they can be fine-tuned to the individual image characteristics and cost nothing over what I pay for my subscription.

[xpatUSA]

I agree with Manfred re: careful selection.

The original horizon is quite bright while, as Manfred noted, the bottom of the sky is a bit darker than just above. And looking betwixt the two I see quite heavy editing to get to the OP image. Those bands at the horizon are certainly a trap for the unwary:

[CIC]

Thank you Manfred and Ted for your kind replies.

@Manfred, I believe I could not make myself clearer to you, sorry for that. I am actually looking for extensive training on Luminosity Mask. I am also not a fan of plugins much.

@Ted, yes, I had to bring down the sky by 0.75 and brighten the water by 0.23, so there is almost a stop's difference between the two. I am not sure how else I could have brought out the drama in the sky. I should have bracketed my shots to blend in Ps. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Another option was, II could go for a composite.

[xpatUSA]

Thank you Manfred and Ted for your kind replies.

@Ted, yes, I had to bring down the sky by 0.75 and brighten the water by 0.23, so there is almost a stop's difference between the two. I am not sure how else I could have brought out the drama in the sky. I should have bracketed my shots to blend in Ps. Please correct me if I am wrong.

namaste-ji, Srijan!

Not a correction as such but I might have first selected just the bright part of the horizon and toned it down, perhaps feathering the selection by a few pixels-worth. Then selected the whole sky and edited it. Then used the inverse selection to edit the rest. Both those selections with enough feathering to avoid that artifact look along the horizon.

I don't use Lr or PS, so I can't offer actual functions or settings thereof, sorry.

Another option was, I could go for a composite.

Can't help there, I rarely composite anything.

Good luck!

[CIC]

@Ted, Namashkar and thank you for your reply.

Here is another where I have tried to refine the masking, please comment on this too.

https://500px.com/photo/1034880456/s...-roy-choudhury

Edit: I was thinking about feathering and applied the same in the above photo. Please let me know if there is any improvement.

[Manfred M]

The best example of the technique I use are found here, but it is for Photoshop, not Lightroom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zSUK7KK7c

[CIC]

The best example of the technique I use are found here, but it is for Photoshop, not Lightroom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zSUK7KK7c

Thank you so much.

Could you please comment on the second photo, the link of which I shared above?

[xpatUSA]

@Ted, Namashkar and thank you for your reply.

Here is another where I have tried to refine the masking, please comment on this too.

https://500px.com/photo/1034880456/s...-roy-choudhury

Edit: I was thinking about feathering and applied the same in the above photo. Please let me know if there is any improvement.

A better image than that different shot in the OP. Is the thin dark horizon as you remember it?

[Manfred M]

Thank you so much.

Could you please comment on the second photo, the link of which I shared above?

When I look at the image, there are a number of things that jump out at me:

1. The rain clouds look too blue; certainly where I live the only time we see clouds like this might be during a thunderstorm during the latter part of golden hour. Normally they tend to be more gray;

2. The line where sea and sky meet looks strange (as you have pointed out); and

3. I don't like the boats on the horizon line; I find them a bit disruptive to the view.

What I did in my edit is to reduce the blue / cyan component in the rain cloud to give them a more neutral colour. I cloned out the small boats and I cloned out the dark line between sea and sky. I also applied a slight vignette to the image, one that is just barely noticeable.


It's not a perfect job, but you should get the idea.

[Stagecoach]

Srijan,

From my own experience working with many seascape horizons along with the gradient tool/filter in PS, LR/ACR would be no different, I have found it essential to get the horizon level to start with.

To get the horizon level I expand to say 200/400% and closely look at the left and right side independently, making minor adjustments to rotation whilst using a horizontal 'guide line'. Additionally, at times there is distortion to be addressed that can be vastly different between lenses and FLs used.

Following getting the horizon line as straight and level as you can it is also necessary at times to experiment with how far before or after you place the gradient end to the actual horizon line to get the most pleasing result. This can vary depending upon whether it is the sea or sky you are altering.

Even with all this care, at times I have found it necessary to use the eraser brush to remove short lengths of unsightly 'lines' that are left.

[CIC]

A better image than that different shot in the OP. Is the thin dark horizon as you remember it?

@Ted, thank you very much. The horizon was a bit dark as I remember as the light was dying out due to the clouds. Though I must admit, it was not this dark.

When I look at the image, there are a number of things that jump out at me:

1. The rain clouds look too blue; certainly where I live the only time we see clouds like this might be during a thunderstorm during the latter part of golden hour. Normally they tend to be more gray;

2. The line where sea and sky meet looks strange (as you have pointed out); and

3. I don't like the boats on the horizon line; I find them a bit disruptive to the view.

What I did in my edit is to reduce the blue/cyan component in the rain cloud to give them a more neutral colour. I cloned out the small boats and I cloned out the dark line between sea and sky. I also applied a slight vignette to the image, one that is just barely noticeable.


It's not a perfect job, but you should get the idea.

@Manfred, thank you so much for your guidance. I agree with all your points but one. As I remember, the cloud was a bit bluish than regular storm clouds, if I have not perceived the colour wrong that is. I have also applied vignette but that must have been too conservative.

1. May I inquire about the cloning technique you applied? The horizon line looks perfect now.

2. It seems that you have removed the blue from the cloud only. Could you please share the exact technique? Is it simple blue desaturation and then masking?

Srijan,

From my own experience working with many seascape horizons along with the gradient tool/filter in PS, LR/ACR would be no different, I have found it essential to get the horizon level to start with.

To get the horizon level I expand to say 200/400% and closely look at the left and right side independently, making minor adjustments to rotation whilst using a horizontal 'guide line'. Additionally, at times there is distortion to be addressed that can be vastly different between lenses and FLs used.

Following getting the horizon line as straight and level as you can it is also necessary at times to experiment with how far before or after you place the gradient end to the actual horizon line to get the most pleasing result. This can vary depending upon whether it is the sea or sky you are altering.

Even with all this care, at times I have found it necessary to use the eraser brush to remove short lengths of unsightly 'lines' that are left.

@Grahame, thank you so much for your input.

I have read and reread your reply and I have understood that I need to magnify the image more and be more cautious regarding placing the gradient filter. Could you please discuss and explain the placement of the gradient filter line at the horizon? I tried to find resources online but in vain.
I also tried to use the eraser brush, but somehow I was not able to achieve the desired result.


Thank you all again.

[Manfred M]

@Manfred, thank you so much for your guidance. I agree with all your points but one. As I remember, the cloud was a bit bluish than regular storm clouds, if I have not perceived the colour wrong that is. I have also applied vignette but that must have been too conservative.

1. May I inquire about the cloning technique you applied? The horizon line looks perfect now.

2. It seems that you have removed the blue from the cloud only. Could you please share the exact technique? Is it simple blue desaturation and then masking?



.

Srijan - I did this all in Photoshop, I don't ever use Lightroom for this type of work. I do everything that I can using adjustment layers in Photoshop.

1. Cloning - I removed boats on the horizon first by cloning them out with a piece of water / sky near the boat to hide that issue. I then made a small, soft brush for the clone stamp tool that was about 2 pixels wider than the area I wanted to clone out. I sampled the sky just above where I wanted to eliminate the line, aligned my clone stamp at one edge and when to the opposite edge of the image. In Photoshop, when you want to draw or clone a straight line, you hold down the <Shift> key and it draws a straight line between the start point and end point. I had a small area that I needed to clean up manually.

2. Cleaning up the clouds - I used the Photoshop selection tool to make a rough selection of the clouds and then used a Hue / Saturation adjustment layer to reduced the blues and cyans. I rarely do a global reduction of colours, but only work with the specific colours that are not working for me. I feather the edge of the selection and do a "global" adjustment to the selected areas and then using a soft brush and modify my layer mask to fine tune the amount of colour I let through my mask.

Again, I don't know how Lightroom does things, but when working in any RGB colour space, the saturation is linked to the colours, so as you darken an area, the saturation will increase. In Photoshop, I set the adjustment layer to Luminosity blending mode to avoid this issue

[DanK]

Srijan,

I have used both Photoshop's select-by-color and Tony Kuyper's photoshop plugins for luminosity masking. While I'm not an expert, I've found Kuyper's add-in far more flexible and easier to use. It comes with superb tutorials. It has only two drawbacks, in my opinion. First, it isn't free. Second, it is now so powerful and does so many things other than luminosity masking that it is initially confusing, until you decide which of its panels and functions you want to use.

He provides a limited set of actions for free, called TK6, https://goodlight.us/writing/basic-v.../basic-v6.html. This may be sufficient for your purposes. I suspect it's a marketing tool, to get people more interested in the paid version, TK7. That's what happened to me.

Dan

[CIC]

Thank you everyone for your kind inputs.

@Manfred, thank you for guiding me. Please find the enclosed version which I post-processed following your directions. Please comment on the work and mistakes I have made.



There is one more thing I would like you to know. I have gone through the tutorial of Unmesh Diinda (Piximperfect). It was a great learning experience. Interestingly, he is not only my countryman, he is a Bengali like myself. I will go through his other tutorials which are suitable for the genre of Photography I mainly pursue. THank you again for suggesting the tutorial.

Srijan,

I have used both Photoshop's select-by-color and Tony Kuyper's photoshop plugins for luminosity masking. While I'm not an expert, I've found Kuyper's add-in far more flexible and easier to use. It comes with superb tutorials. It has only two drawbacks, in my opinion. First, it isn't free. Second, it is now so powerful and does so many things other than luminosity masking that it is initially confusing, until you decide which of its panels and functions you want to use.

He provides a limited set of actions for free, called TK6, https://goodlight.us/writing/basic-v.../basic-v6.html. This may be sufficient for your purposes. I suspect it's a marketing tool, to get people more interested in the paid version, TK7. That's what happened to me.

Dan

@Dan, thank you so much for your kind gesture. I shall surely give the free version a try as paid versions are beyond my reach considering the price when converted to my country's currency. Though whatever little I have understood about these panels, is that I need to go through some sort, of course, to fully utilize their potential.

[Manfred M]

@Manfred, thank you for guiding me. Please find the enclosed version which I post-processed following your directions. Please comment on the work and mistakes I have made.



There is one more thing I would like you to know. I have gone through the tutorial of Unmesh Diinda (Piximperfect). It was a great learning experience. Interestingly, he is not only my countryman, he is a Bengali like myself. I will go through his other tutorials which are suitable for the genre of Photography I mainly pursue. THank you again for suggesting the tutorial.

I think the clouds are an improvement over your original, as are the missing boats. I still don't like the heavy dark line at the horizon, but that is personal taste.

I had no idea where Unmesh was from; I find his videos are some of the best ones for learning about some of Photoshop's hidden gems. The closest I've gotten to your part of India was Assam. Visiting the Sunderbans was always on my list of places to visit, but with COVID and my getting older, it may not happen.