Luminosity Mask Mystery

[Cantab]

I've successfully used several times the luminosity mask process described in this book: https://www.capturelandscapes.com/pr...inosity-masks/ The book is well written and helpful.

But my last two attempts have run into a problem early in the process of creating the brights alpha channels. The layer icon turns reddish and when I subsequently look at the image it has a prominent red cast to it. This has happened on two consecutive days. It did not happen on previous photos for which I created luminosity masks.

I've presumably accidentally done something wrong but I have no idea what. It's almost as if a partial red fill has been created when I make the brights luminosity masks/channels.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[DanK]

Bruce,

This may be a bit off topic, but it may help.

Not having read that book, I don't know what the method is. However, after some exploring, I decided that instead of fussing with channels, it's simpler to add one of the several Photoshop extensions that create luminosity masks. I settled on Tony Kuyper's TK7. The main drawback--apart from the fact that it isn't free--is that he has made the extension, which now comprises a set of panels, so powerful that it takes time sorting out which parts of it interest you. Once that's done, however, it's both extremely powerful and easy to use. I use the TK7 "go" panel, which provides masks based on luminosity, color, and saturation. It provides very powerful tools for modifying the mask--e.g., expanding it overall, changing one end, changing the midpoint--with sliders and other tools, and adds the mask directly to any adjustment you want. It frees you to focus on what you want the mask to be, rather than focusing on fiddling with channels.

He has a stripped down free version, TK6, which is simpler to learn and is an easy way to see whether this is the way you would like to go. If your needs are simple, the TK6 panel may be sufficient, but I quickly got hooked and decided I wanted the entire package.

Dan

[Manfred M]

As always, it is best to post an example of the problem (image) and potentially a screen shot showing your layer stack.

I don't go through the alpha channel masking process anymore, but find it a lot simpler, faster and more accurate to let Photoshop's luminonsity masking functions that are buried under the "Select Color" menu. There you can build masks for highlights, mid-tones and shadow detail in a fraction of the time it takes to do an alpha channel mask, and you get a lot more accuracy / ability to tune the mask too.

If everything looks red, it is possible you have enabled the "lith" mask mode, which by default overlays a transparent red mask over your whole image. Hit the "" key and see if that solves the problem.

[xpatUSA]

Bruce, the thread got me looking at luminosity masking in the GIMP and thence to an article by Pat David about split-toning wherein there was this hilarious link:

http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/20...ease-stop.html

Virtually OT but please enjoy!

[Manfred M]

Bruce, the thread got me looking at luminosity masking in the GIMP and thence to an article by Pat David about split-toning wherein there was this hilarious link:

http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/20...ease-stop.html

Virtually OT but please enjoy!

Good one Ted - this all reminds me of shooting daylight balanced film under tungsten light.

Probably not understood by those who missed doing film photography and are confused why we still have a tungsten WB setting on cameras when all of the new energy efficient lights struggle output at the same colour temperature...

The "look" shown in those feature film segments in the link you posted have become all to common. I've never quite understood why people seem to push for orange skin tones; people don't look "right" when they have orange coloured skin.

[billtils]

Bruce

When I was exploring PS and LR a year or so ago, I found this from Greg Benz on luminosity masking. I liked his Lumenzia package a lot especially the luminosty masking part of it, however have no need for it any more. If you are a PS user and want a free luminosity masking panel he has that too. I don't know but suspect the panel is close to what you've been trying and may be worth a look.

[Cantab]

Thank you all for your comments. I'll post again after I'm back at the computer this afternoon.

[Chataignier]

Another vote for Tony Kuyper's luminosity mask tools - so much quicker and easier.
Yes the TK7 panel has to be paid for, but as Dan says you can do lots with the TK6 panel which is a free download - it's also much simpler and a good introduction to the subject.

[Cantab]

Hit the "" key and see if that solves the problem.

Manfred, did you mean to have something between the two quotation "" marks?

[Manfred M]

Backslash key, Bruce. I'm not sure why it disappeared.

"\"


This is the lith mask I was writing about.

[Cantab]

Backslash key, Bruce. I'm not sure why it disappeared.

""


This is the lith mask I was writing about.

Manfred, that appears somewhat similar to what I've had appear but is not the cure. I used the backstroke key but the colour overlay I had did not disappear. I've made 2 screenshots but need to create a third one, then will upload them to Smugmug then to here. Playing around I discovered that in quick mask mode (if memory serves correctly), a black mask on a duplicate copy of the background layer turns the image ruby coloured. But I've never intentionally used quick mask mode.

I've had a look at Kuyper's TK7 and TK6. The process for creating luminosity masks looks simpler than what I've been doing. But I'm also going to dig into the Select Colour menu that Manfred had referred to. (I've previously used that menu in making colour range masks).

[Manfred M]

Manfred, that appears somewhat similar to what I've had appear but is not the cure. I used the backstroke key but the colour overlay I had did not disappear. I've made 2 screenshots but need to create a third one, then will upload them to Smugmug then to here. Playing around I discovered that in quick mask mode (if memory serves correctly), a black mask on a duplicate copy of the background layer turns the image ruby coloured. But I've never intentionally used quick mask mode.

I've had a look at Kuyper's TK7 and TK6. The process for creating luminosity masks looks simpler than what I've been doing. But I'm also going to dig into the Select Colour menu that Manfred had referred to. (I've previously used that menu in making colour range masks).

I'm looking forward to seeing those images. I rarely use the quick mask mode, but have on occasion hit the wrong key and had it pop up.

All that Kuyper's TK6 and TK7 do is automate the manual process that I suspect you are using. I know some people that use actions to record the manual process and then just replay it, rather than buying Kuyper or Benz's packages.

The method I use is described on the PixImperfect site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zSUK7KK7c

[DanK]

All that Kuyper's TK6 and TK7 do is automate the manual process that I suspect you are using.

Not all, but yes, that's a large part of what TK7 does, and that's precisely it's main value. It doesn't automate the editing process; in fact, IMHO, it increases your control--e.g., by adding continuous modifications of the mask to the basic discrete ones. What it automates is the tedious process of creating the mask, freeing the photographer to spend that time focusing on edits. it also makes very easy to modify masks on the fly.

The function in Photoshop Manfred mentions does much the same thing--that is, it automates the process, allowing you to create luminosity masks without looking at channels. I use it frequently when selecting color ranges, and I've used it a few times for luminosity ranges as well. It has the advantage of being far simpler to learn than TK7, but at the cost of being consideraly less powerful. I'll probably switch soon to TK7 for color masks too, if they are at all complicated.

Either way, when I started looking at luminosity masking, it seemed clear to me that using some method that automates the creation of the masks would be a big plus for me. My unsolicited advice, if you think you will use luminosity masks enough to make it worth the investment of time, is that you play a bit both with Photoshop’s select-by-color function and TK6 to see which you think is better for you--keeping in mind that TK7 is far more powerful than TK6.

It's been a long time, so my memory may be incorrect, but if I recall correctly, one example is continuous modification of masks. TK6 offers one of the TK options: a set of 12 discrete masks, with three larger ones that combine small ones. If I recall correctly, you need to buy TK7 to get the continuous adjustments, using sliders. TK7 allows you to adjust either the ends or the midpoint of the range continuously. Photoshop also offers continuous adjustment, but only of the total width of the luminosity range (oddly labeled "fuzziness").

[Cantab]

As promised, here are my screenshots.



All is well here.



Brights 3 channel is on and the layer name becomes coloured




The channels and layers speak for themselves. The image turned reddish. Ultimately, I simply continued forward and the final result was okay (not red)


And finally:


This also speaks for itself.

My initial concern was that the red would end up in the final image. It didn’t.

But the red was disconcerting and did not happen when I’d edited in exactly the same way a photo of my great nephew’s sister.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, using the back slash key did not remove the red cast over the image.

[Manfred M]

Bruce - the "\" backslash only works when you are on the layer with the layer mask. Anywhere else, it has no effect.

[Cantab]

Manfred, I found that using the backslash key added (and removed) an additional layer of red; it did not remove the red shown in my screenshots.

But I've now successfully used the mask technique described in the youtube video for which you gave the link in an earlier post. The process is enormously simpler and gives greater flexibility than the one where you have to make a collection of alpha channels.

I'd watched the video a couple of weeks ago when you mentioned it in a previous thread. At that time, I found it left me in the dust and none the wiser, probably the result of a hearing issue and a brain that may not be as fast as it used to be. This time round, having already learned to create luminosity masks the hard way from the book I mentioned earlier in this thread, I could follow and take in what the fellow in the video was saying.

I've had a brief look at the 95 page user manual for Kuyper's TK7. It looks like it would be quite a learning curve. Since the Photoshop/Colour Range/... technique meets my needs for at least the near future, that's the one I think I'll stick with.

Thank you again to everyone for your comments.

[Manfred M]

Manfred, I found that using the backslash key added (and removed) an additional layer of red; it did not remove the red shown in my screenshots.

But I've now successfully used the mask technique described in the youtube video for which you gave the link in an earlier post. The process is enormously simpler and gives greater flexibility than the one where you have to make a collection of alpha channels.

I'd watched the video a couple of weeks ago when you mentioned it in a previous thread. At that time, I found it left me in the dust and none the wiser, probably the result of a hearing issue and a brain that may not be as fast as it used to be. This time round, having already learned to create luminosity masks the hard way from the book I mentioned earlier in this thread, I could follow and take in what the fellow in the video was saying.

I've had a brief look at the 95 page user manual for Kuyper's TK7. It looks like it would be quite a learning curve. Since the Photoshop/Colour Range/... technique meets my needs for at least the near future, that's the one I think I'll stick with.

Thank you again to everyone for your comments.

Your experience is somewhat similar to mine and that is why I use the Select Color option in Photoshop. Nothing that requires a huge manual (i.e. I use "intuitive" processes in my workflow wherever I can) is something I want to deal with.

Let me add a few of other suggestions for the future"

1. If you click on the layer mask itself (rather than the "tool"), you will find two additional controls; density and feather. I don't use density all that often, but I use the feather a lot. It allows you to soften the transition of the mask and that can be very useful. Be careful though as too much feathering can create halos in the final image, if not done with care.

2. The mask itself can be edited. If you <Alt> <Left Click> on the mask, it opens in Photoshop and all of the direct editing tools can be used on it. The only time I use Photoshop's dodge and burn tools are when I tweak the mask. I will often use the curves adjustment <Image> <Adjustments><Curves> to refine the mask. Of course, painting on the mask with a black or white (or gray) brush is the most common way I edit my masks, generally using a moderate (25%) flow rate and appropriate hardness (usually a medium hard brush).

3. You can turn the mask into a selection by <Ctrl> <Left Click> on it. Then you can use the selection menu functionality (Expand, Contract, Smooth, Feather, Invert) etc to refine your mask. I use a combination of these techniques if I start seeing halos, for example.

[DanK]

I'm not trying to drum up business for Tony Kuyper or to persuade anyone to use his products, but for the sake of those trying to figure out how to manage luminosity masks, I think a bit of clarification is in order.

TK7 is indeed very complex, but the odds are very high that a user will be able to ignore most of it. First, it contains 5 different panels. I use exactly one of them. Kuyper has decided to create a set of panels that between them contain a huge number of functions, quite a few of which can be directly accessed in Photoshop. The large bulk of this is unnecessary if you simply want luminosity masks. I never touch the other 4 panels, three of which are more complex than the panel I use. And it creates the impression that it's much more work to learn and use the tools than it really is.

I use the relatively new and reasonably simple Go panel, which starts at page 62 in the manual. Even this contains more than I need (for example, I have never had occasion to mask by saturation rather than by color or luminosity, but this option is present in the Go module). However, the basic controls are reasonably simple and are more powerful and flexible than Photoshop's select-by-color function. What I find particularly useful is what Kuyper calls "infinity masks". These are masks that start with any value you select but that are then modifiable with three sliders that provide more flexibility than Photoshop does.

Once one practices with the Go module a bit, it becomes as intuitive as Photoshop's select by color function. I'm hardly an expert, but I use it comfortably without reference to instructions. However, it does take a little more time to learn (not vastly more, if you ignore the other panels and the functions you don't want). I do sometimes spend more time with it, I think, simply because the options for modifying the mask are much more flexible than Photoshop's, so I often spend some time fiddling with the mask until I have what I think I want.