Windows 11 and Eizo monitor users.

[pschlute]

Just a heads up. My computer is capable of being updated to Win11 OS and I have the "invite" via Microsoft updates.

I did a bit of compatibility checking before going ahead and discovered the Eizo calibration software is not capable of working with Win11 yet. From the Eizo website:

"We highly recommend not using a PC installed with Microsoft Windows 11 for the time being"

So if you use an Eizo monitor, best leave the update for now.

https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/d.../manual/CS2730

[Manfred M]

Not a problem for me as none of my computers are capable of running Windows 11 (they are too old), so upgrading is not even an option.

On the other hand, I will be replacing my 10 year old laptop (hopefully no later than Tuesday) and it will be a Windows 11 machines, so I will get to compare.

[pschlute]

Let me know how you like it Manfred.

I will probably wait until new year now.

[Acorn]

I remember it being said officially at the time of the launch of Windows 10 that there would be no further Windows operating systems, simply that Windows 10 would continue having updates. I'll not be in a hurry to install version 11, given how long Windows XP was so effective.

[royent]

I would have Windows XP back tomorrow if I could.
Roy

[DanK]

I see. I reason to rush to change to 11. 10 is an excellent OS, and I haven’t yet seen features that make me eager to switch. I will in due time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Donald]

Just a heads up.

"We highly recommend not using a PC installed with Microsoft Windows 11 for the time being"

So if you use an Eizo monitor, best leave the update for now.

Thanks for that heads up, Peter. That could have led me into deep water.

[lunaticitizen]

Eizo must have a very small firmware/software development team. Windows 11 has been out for beta testers and developers for more than 4 months yet their products are still not fully compatible. The same goes with the latest macOS.

FWIW I use two Eizo EV3285 with both Windows 11 and macOS and haven't noticed a problem. Maybe it's because I don't use their software nor do I calibrate my monitors.

[lunaticitizen]

Not a problem for me as none of my computers are capable of running Windows 11 (they are too old), so upgrading is not even an option.

On the other hand, I will be replacing my 10 year old laptop (hopefully no later than Tuesday) and it will be a Windows 11 machines, so I will get to compare.

Are you not interested in the latest Macs, Manfred? I just discovered these new masking tools in Lightroom -which is perfect for lazy people like me- and they run so fast with the M1 chip.

[DanK]

I'll be interested in Manfred's response. I'm in a somewhat similar position, but in my case, the issue is a desktop that I need to replace, and that's a harder call.

I'm interested in the M1 chip (it's actually two different chips with substantially different capabilities, Pro and Max) not only because of speed but because it has a better speed to power ratio than Intel chips, and that appeals to me as an environmentalist.

One barrier to me is the learning curve. The simpler one's use of a computer, and the closer one sticks to the basic OS without various add-ons, the easier it is to switch operating systems. I'm not one of those people. My computer is loaded with all sorts of stuff, some of which (like the powerful file manager Directory Opus) extend or modify the functions that are native to the OS. I tweak software in lots of ways. I'd have to relearn all of that using different software tools, which would slow me down for a long time--for a long while, more than offsetting the speed boost from the CPU.

I've alo used Windows computers for many years and have almost no experience with Macs. My wife does have a Mac and doesn't do anywhere nearly as much additional with the computer as I do, but I've found myself fumbling for quite a while when problems came up (e.g., with printer installations or scanning software) that I could solve quickly under Windows, simply because I'm familiar with it. On more than one occasion, I've had to contact friends who are Mac users to find out how to do something simple. And the two operating systems have different weaknesses to be aware of. For example, when my photo printer started to malfunction, I first installed it on my laptop to make sure the problem wasn't my desktop. It wasn't. So then I tried to install it on my wife's Mac to check whether the problem was not related to the OS. The installation didn't work correctly. I called a friend who is an expert Mac user (and a big Mac advocate), and he asked me to walk through what I had done. He found the problem immediately: the Mac OS defaulted to installing a default driver of its own, and I had to specify not to do that. I had not any any similar issue with Windows. Just different, is all.

So it takes a big advantage to make it worthwhile for someone like me to switch, but I thought the M1 might be enough, and I shopped online a few days ago for Mac to replace my desktop. Disappointing. Like Manfred, I use a color-critical wide gamut monitor, so I need a computer to support one. The Mac Mini has a built-in monitor that I don't consider acceptable. The Mac Pro doesn't, but it costs more than 3 times as much as I would pay for PC, and it actually doesn't even have an M1 CPU. It has an Intel Xeon CPU.

An alternative would be to buy a Macbook Pro and use it with a docking station, assuming the onboard graphics processor meets Adobe's recommendations, https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb...-card-faq.html. I think that might be a sensible solution for some people. I don't think it is for me. I want a separate desktop and laptop machine. I use the laptop not only to carry around, but also as my spare tire and as one of my several backups for many files. So I need two computers anyway. And my current laptop is a relatively new and very nice Lenovo, so I would be stuck with two operating systems for a while.

In Manfred's case, he wouldn't have this problem because he's specifically looking for a laptop, but he would have the th two-OS problem, at least for a while.

I don't think my reasoning applies to all that many people, and I'm curious to hear what others decide, and why.

[Manfred M]

Are you not interested in the latest Macs, Manfred? I just discovered these new masking tools in Lightroom -which is perfect for lazy people like me- and they run so fast with the M1 chip.

The simple reason for my staying away from Macs is their cost. Apple has the highest profit margins in the computer business so a lot of the money you are paying for is going straight to their bottom line.

I replaced my rather ancient (10 year old) laptop just under 2 weeks ago and had a look at the two new Mac laptops, If I were primarily interesting in rendering video and needed to do so for long periods on the road, I would have given Apple a more serious look as this is the machine's strength as is its long battery life. While the new Macbooks do really well in some areas, the new chips are much slower in others. No gamer would touch one as game play is about 1/3 slower than on more standard Intel based systems.

I ended up going with a Legion (Lenovo) computer that cost me $CA2500 versus the closest comparable Mac that would have set me back $4300, so really a no-brainer.

The unit I bought has the 2nd from the top of the line AMD chip (8 core / 16 thread); which is faster and lower power than any equivalent current Intel chip , 32 GB RAM, 4K screen that is fully Adobe RGB compatible with a slightly higher resolution than the Apple Retina display; the iMac is only P3 colour space. It is a 15.6" display versus Apple's 16"; but it weights 1/2 lb less than the Apple. I have 2TB m.2 SSD with an open m.2 slot I can add another 2TB drive to, the Apple came with a 1TB drive.

Really, the only place where the new iMac has a significant advantage is in battery life, which is over double. The only time I am not near a plug is when I teach or shoot tethered in the field. In most other things, the Lenovo has a stronger feature set for what I do (a fully Adobe RGB compliant screen is hard to find on a laptop). The Lenovo comes on sale every so often and I happened to catch one where the price was down $500. For the price difference of $CA 1800, I can invest in a lot of other things including a new desktop that I also need.

I had used Macs fairly often in the past so learning a new OS is not an issue.

[Tronhard]

Way back in the last century I used to teach both Mac and Windows O/S and apps. I chose to go to Windows myself because:
a) They did not have purely proprietary hardware. I could get my peripherals and even components from wherever.
b) The vast majority of corporate clients I worked with used Windows, so I got to know it better
c) With a Windows machine, if one can get to a DOS prompt one can usually resurrect a machine, I found with a Mac you pretty well had to rebuild it.
d) Windows ran more of the software I wanted to use

That said, I know that there is Windows emulation software available and apparently that works extremely well to let native Windows apps work on Mac hardware.

Most of my computers have been rejected for Windows 11, but my Surface Pro is a candidate... I may consider the upgrade when they tell me it's ready, just to see how it functions. I will give it as long as possible to let them iron out the bugs.
My main hesitancy is that the trend with new operations systems is that they push us further and further into automated collaboration and 'smart' remote features. I prefer to work in splendid isolation...

[Cantab]

I remember it being said officially at the time of the launch of Windows 10 that there would be no further Windows operating systems, simply that Windows 10 would continue having updates. I'll not be in a hurry to install version 11, given how long Windows XP was so effective.

Yes, I remember this too.

My desktop was relatively high powered when I had it built in early 2020 (just before Covid) so I assume it will be able to run Windows 11. But I'll hold off doing the switch as long as I possibly can.

[lunaticitizen]

Dan,

If you're conscious about the energy the computer consumes then choosing Mac is a good idea. Since you want a desktop, then you'll want a Mac Mini (the iMacs are the one with a monitor built-in). The latest Mac Mini hasn't got the the M1 Pro/Max chip yet, but even the regular M1 is a revelation in regard to performance per power ratio. Drawing 39 W under maximum load is what I'd consider a 'game changer'.

[lunaticitizen]

Manfred,

I myself also use a Windows laptop as my main computer, mostly because my clients use Windows and I also deal with Microsoft's technologies a lot. No MacBook has a LAN port anymore, and I have to use one when I go to my client's data center for example. I'm also conscious about weight since I have to carry the PC all day; so currently my choice is a Panasonic Let's Note SV1 laptop which is under 1 kg / 2 lbs. This is a company-provisioned laptop.

At home I got my big monitors and comfortable workspace but the problem is when my wife and I both work from home usually I'm the one who has to work in the living room A 12-inch display just doesn't cut it so I needed a laptop with a bigger display.

The company MSI is a client of mine and when I told them my hobby is photography and I'm looking for a new laptop they loaned me an MSI Creator 17 B11UH laptop. The display is wonderful and it's blazing fast but sometimes it gets too hot when I put it on my lap Plus, the power draw is 230 W under maximum load so I decided the laptop is not for me.

Now I got myself a 16-inch MacBook Pro which is great and runs Lightroom really fast, so far so good. At 2.2 kgs / 4.9 lbs it's destined never to leave my living room, though.

[Manfred M]

Manfred,

I myself also use a Windows laptop as my main computer, mostly because my clients use Windows and I also deal with Microsoft's technologies a lot. No MacBook has a LAN port anymore, and I have to use one when I go to my client's data center for example. I'm also conscious about weight since I have to carry the PC all day; so currently my choice is a Panasonic Let's Note SV1 laptop which is under 1 kg / 2 lbs. This is a company-provisioned laptop.

At home I got my big monitors and comfortable workspace but the problem is when my wife and I both work from home usually I'm the one who has to work in the living room A 12-inch display just doesn't cut it so I needed a laptop with a bigger display.

The company MSI is a client of mine and when I told them my hobby is photography and I'm looking for a new laptop they loaned me an MSI Creator 17 B11UH laptop. The display is wonderful and it's blazing fast but sometimes it gets too hot when I put it on my lap Plus, the power draw is 230 W under maximum load so I decided the laptop is not for me.

Now I got myself a 16-inch MacBook Pro which is great and runs Lightroom really fast, so far so good. At 2.2 kgs / 4.9 lbs it's destined never to leave my living room, though.

Obviously your needs are better met than mine by a Macbook Pro. I don't live in a Japanese house or apartment, but I've been there and know how much smaller they are compared to where I live in North America (my oldest daughter lives in Japan right now, near Nagoya, and has off and on lived in Japan for about 5 years and we have visited several times). I don't have your space constraints and in fact do all my post-processing (at least the final prep) in a basement office with low light (under 40 lux at the work area), neutral gray walls, etc.

I rarely work with the laptop on my lap (always on a hard work surface), so I work under different conditions than you do. My power supply has the same rating as yours (230W) and is does get a little warm.

[Tronhard]

Yes, I remember this too.

My desktop was relatively high powered when I had it built in early 2020 (just before Covid) so I assume it will be able to run Windows 11. But I'll hold off doing the switch as long as I possibly can.

I would not be too sure about being able to run Win 11. My main computer is a Lenovo Workstation from 2015: built to handle managing a network, with all that implies including 32GB RAM, 10TB of storage and a lot of built-in security and I use is as a desktop, not as a network server. It got rejected as a desktop candidate , as did two of my other three computers!

My understanding of the comments about Windows 10 is that the core code was rebuilt, and MS indicated that this would not be repeated (assumedly not forever but for some time). The new Windows has to be given its own identifier, so 11 is logical, but the core code is supposed to be the same as 10. What they seem to have done is provide a modified interface and added a lot of software to encourage social interconnectivity and a lot of security (assumedly for the increased risks of the latter).

Since Windows 10 is expected to be supported until at least 2025, and I am in no need of social or other collaboration, I will continue to run what I have, and when the time comes it should be about right to just get new computer, which will come with the latest version of Windows installed.

[lunaticitizen]

Obviously your needs are better met than mine by a Macbook Pro. I don't live in a Japanese house or apartment, but I've been there and know how much smaller they are compared to where I live in North America (my oldest daughter lives in Japan right now, near Nagoya, and has off and on lived in Japan for about 5 years and we have visited several times). I don't have your space constraints and in fact do all my post-processing (at least the final prep) in a basement office with low light (under 40 lux at the work area), neutral gray walls, etc.

I rarely work with the laptop on my lap (always on a hard work surface), so I work under different conditions than you do. My power supply has the same rating as yours (230W) and is does get a little warm.

I re-read your previous post and you said "the simple reason for my staying away from Macs is their cost".

I then took a peek at the Apple Canada website and I could see that the cheapest 16-inch MacBook Pro at $3,149 is still much more expensive than the Lenovo laptop you chose.

If only there was a standardized benchmark tool for Adobe software suite, people would also be able to understand what they're getting in terms of price per performance ratio.

There is no mistake about the inability of Mac users to add their own external SSD, though. Forcing users to shell out much more money if they want to add disk capacity has always been Apple's modus operandi.. I mean business model

[DanK]

I need to get a Windows key. How can I do this?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...1-a806abf0a886

[billtils]

There is no mistake about the inability of Mac users to add their own external SSD, though.

That's not correct. I run 3 external SSDs from my iMac. If it is a typo and you meant internal SSD then yes - but what's stopping you from adding an external one?