Borana Woman

[Manfred M]

The Borana are an ethnic group that live in Southern Ethiopia. We stopped at her village on our way back to Adidis Ababa from the Omo Valley.

[BobGilbody]

Your photo of the Borana woman reminded me I did other things than sit in my granny flat Manfred.
This photo was taken in Central Kalimantan Borneo. I was based at Muara Tehweh; only westerner in the place. To get to the southern end of the exploration lease I had to travel by speed boat up the Barito River to Muara Laugn, then by Dayak long boat for four hours up the Laugn river.

IMG_0001 fixed by Bob Gilbody, on Flickr

The original photo was taken on Fuji Velvia but it was digitised on a Canon scanner.

The reason the girl was dressed in her Sunday best was that no one in the village of Batu Bua had seen a white man so I was quite an attraction. The people were Bahkumpi Dayak. [ probably spelt that wrong ] Seems I did spill it wrung:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakumpai_people

[Donald]

Manfred

I am interested in how you get these images. Like many people, I am very nervous about asking people if I may photograph them. And because of that I don't. And I know I lose out on a lot of images, like the one you have shown us here. How do you approach the task of asking the person for permission? I'd love to be able to do it.

[lunarbo]

If they speak my language I approach and say " You have such an interesting face/amazing eyes " or the like - find something positive!! - "may I take your photo?"
Then I thank them and show them what I've taken, they are usually interested.
If in a foreign place without the language then a smile, a gesture to camera and to them gets the message across
I would say that agreement is high- about 80%
I'm not sure if being female helps but the smile certainly does - as does approaching with the knowledge that you will respect the person's right to refuse. I feel somehow that this does transmit to the subject
I feel it is an intrusion to just snap someone without their permission although I have done so occasionally. It's just that the person might think you want to photo them because they are different/ugly/some kind of freak or that you might plaster them all over the internet, hence the need to be respectful.

[Manfred M]

Your photo of the Borana woman reminded me I did other things than sit in my granny flat Manfred.
This photo was taken in Central Kalimantan Borneo. I was based at Muara Tehweh; only westerner in the place. To get to the southern end of the exploration lease I had to travel by speed boat up the Barito River to Muara Laugn, then by Dayak long boat for four hours up the Laugn river.



The original photo was taken on Fuji Velvia but it was digitised on a Canon scanner.

The reason the girl was dressed in her Sunday best was that no one in the village of Batu Bua had seen a white man so I was quite an attraction. The people were Bahkumpi Dayak. [ probably spelt that wrong ] Seems I did spill it wrung:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakumpai_people

Your story reminds me of our trip through some of the other parts of Borneo; through Brunei and Sabah, in the Malaysian part of the island. I remember traveling up the Sungai Temburong to visit Temburong National Park in Brunei in a Sea Dayak fast boat. I was not photographing people a lot at the time and only had a little point and shoot camera. In parts of North-Eastern India, where very few tourists (and even fewer Westerners) visited, people really liked having their pictures taken.

[Manfred M]

If they speak my language I approach and say " You have such an interesting face/amazing eyes " or the like - find something positive!! - "may I take your photo?"
Then I thank them and show them what I've taken, they are usually interested.
If in a foreign place without the language then a smile, a gesture to camera and to them gets the message across
I would say that agreement is high- about 80%
I'm not sure if being female helps but the smile certainly does - as does approaching with the knowledge that you will respect the person's right to refuse. I feel somehow that this does transmit to the subject
I feel it is an intrusion to just snap someone without their permission although I have done so occasionally. It's just that the person might think you want to photo them because they are different/ugly/some kind of freak or that you might plaster them all over the internet, hence the need to be respectful.

Barbara; you describe both my approach and feelings toward the subject very concisely. I very much do what you do in my approach. I find being an older white guy makes things more challenging in Western culture, but not in Asia, Africa or South / Central America.

[Manfred M]

Donald - I think a book can be written on answering your questions.

The first and most important part is that the photographer has to be comfortable in photographing people. Unless you are comfortable doing so, it is hard to do so well in a street environment. I learned my skills by attending workshops and portraiture courses (often associated with lighting). That gives you a solid basis for understanding what we are looking for in a strong street photograph.

Actually doing this type of photography means getting to places where there are interesting subjects. There have been many books and articles written about this genre and the great news is that no one agrees with each others. Some photographers recommend engaging with the subject, others advocate "stealth mode". Some suggest wide angle lenses while others suggest long focal lengths. I personally prefer longer focal lengths, not because it lets me keep my distance from the subject, but rather that it gives me far better control of what is happening around my subject and gives me more control of the background. That also gives me a different look that the wide angle shooters. The downside is that people can get between me and the subject and ruin my shot. Shooting with a f/2.8 70-200mm lens is hardly unobtrusive, so I have learned to "hide in plain sight".

I also try to shoot in colour, rather than B&W because there are a lot of B&W street shooters out there and it does help differentiate my work, although there are times I will go with a more traditional approach when B&W is more appropriate to help simplify the image.

In terms of permission, I normally don't ask when doing stealth shots. If the person sees me and I don't speak the local language, I will point at my camera and if they do not wave me off, I will take the shot. If they don't seem to mind, I will shoot. If out on my own and doing some shopping; if will ask the shop / stall keeper if I can take their shot after the purchase has been made. If on a tour, the tour guide will make arrangements; these can include payment to the individual or sometimes to the head man in the village. If there are a lot of people around taking shots, I will often be the last one shooting because I am not competing with the other photographers for the attention of the subject. When shooting at a festival or other gathering (including visiting a market) I will shoot what I can.

I am going to stay away from the ethics of shooting in developing countries as there is a lot of negative opinion where some people refer to shots like these as "travel porn". Given the behaviour of many photographers, there is some truth to these accusations, but I will always 100% treat everyone I photograph with the utmost of respect and will not deliberately look down on someone or try to pretend I am superior to them. I am documenting the changing world and I am quite convinced that some of my images will have historical significance at some time in the future.

[escape]

Manfred

I am interested in how you get these images. Like many people, I am very nervous about asking people if I may photograph them. And because of that I don't. And I know I lose out on a lot of images, like the one you have shown us here. How do you approach the task of asking the person for permission? I'd love to be able to do it.

If you want to do it you should. You know what prevents you. In spite of that, you do it. Give yourself the assignment to go out and ask a stranger for permission to take their picture. When you're on the diving board, the only way to get into the pool is to jump. You already know how to swim. I think your photos of strangers would be awesome.

[escape]

I had started writing a blog titled, " How Our Beliefs and Imaginings Impact Our Photography". It's geared toward Photographing Strangers. Did some research, self-analysis, and fieldwork for the material. I was prompted to do this study to understand why I rushed the shot once I got permission. I believe it's because of personal beliefs and imaginings we harbor. Many deep-rooted. Such as, You shouldn't intrude as an example. The first section of the series covers asking for permission. Maybe I will get back into it and finish it

[escape]

[Manfred M]

Daniel - I had a quiet chuckle when I read your three posts.

A lot of street photographers don't want to let their subjects know that they are being photographed because having that knowledge changes the way that they react in front of the camera. That generally gives a style of image a lot of us street photographers try to avoid. Asking for permission ahead of time can be quite counterproductive in getting a natural, spontaneous shot looking shot. If you want the subject to ham it up or start looking uncomfortable because a camera is pointing at them, asking permission will generally get you that. That being said, there are ways around that, but they will require you to invest some time in doing so.

In most countries, especially those whose legal system is based on the British Common Law one (USA, Canada, Australia, etc), taking pictures of people from a public places does not require the subject's permission, with some very specific exceptions. The only time you need a model release is when that image will be used for commercial purposes, i.e. in a product ad. Generally, there is no restriction on you taking and showing or selling your work. If you want more details, it is best to contact a local lawyer that deals with intellectual property law (copyright, etc.).

That doesn't mean anything goes; I would not take a picture of a minor without the permission of a parent or guardian in most circumstances, even though this is technically 100% legal.

[escape]

Daniel - I had a quiet chuckle when I read your three posts.

A lot of street photographers don't want to let their subjects know that they are being photographed because having that knowledge changes the way that they react in front of the camera. That generally gives a style of image a lot of us street photographers try to avoid. Asking for permission ahead of time can be quite counterproductive in getting a natural, spontaneous shot looking shot. If you want the subject to ham it up or start looking uncomfortable because a camera is pointing at them, asking permission will generally get you that. That being said, there are ways around that, but they will require you to invest some time in doing so.

In most countries, especially those whose legal system is based on the British Common Law one (USA, Canada, Australia, etc), taking pictures of people from a public places does not require the subject's permission, with some very specific exceptions. The only time you need a model release is when that image will be used for commercial purposes, i.e. in a product ad. Generally, there is no restriction on you taking and showing or selling your work. If you want more details, it is best to contact a local lawyer that deals with intellectual property law (copyright, etc.).

That doesn't mean anything goes; I would not take a picture of a minor without the permission of a parent or guardian in most circumstances, even though this is technically 100% legal.

The original question was. How do you approach the task of asking the person for permission? I'd love to be able to do it.
I dont think you ever answeresd the question. I did.

Most photographers can take a picture of someone at a distance unseen. It was about asking for permission. Asking strangers for permission to take their photos can lead to some great pictures Even a book full, like The Humans of New York.

[Manfred M]

The original question was. How do you approach the task of asking the person for permission?

I don't think you ever answered the question. I did.

I think I answered that I generally don't ask for permission. Most of my street photography is in places where I don't speak the language and if I do, I generally don't want the subject knowing that I am shooting them.

[escape]

I think I answered that I generally don't ask for permission. Most of my street photography is in places where I don't speak the language and if I do, I generally don't want the subject knowing that I am shooting them.

Perfect! You don't generally ask for permission.

[BobGilbody]

I'm thinking of writing a scholarly article on why in a 'chatroom' type situation it takes on average 4.87563421 posts for one of the interlocutors to get their panties in a tangle.
Might be as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike but would be interesting.
I took the following photos in China during the three years I lived there. I don't speak Chinese.

[/url]IMG_3063 by Bob Gilbody, on Flickr

Got away with it.

[/url]IMG_3075 by Bob Gilbody, on Flickr

Not sure ???

[/url]IMG_2929 by Bob Gilbody, on Flickr

He was too cool to ask.

happy lady by Bob Gilbody, on Flickr

This lady didn't seem to mind.

15 by Bob Gilbody, on Flickr

This lady had other things more important on her mind.