Wisdom of unnecessary camera repair

[ajax]

This novice would welcome a little advice from those of you with more expertise. My current dilemma pertains to cameras. So far I've never had a need to seek repairs covered by warranty. However, I'm now confronted with a situation where I should be entitled to such but question the wisdom of doing so.

I recently purchased a new camera with warranty protection for the first year. However, while new as in NOT previously used it is a relatively old model. I believe it was first brought to market in 2015 but is no longer being made. I've been using it for about 3 months now and recently figured out that whenever I remove the battery the date and time gets lost and needs to be reset. Because date and time depend on some kind of clock that must be powered continually even when the battery is removed, I suspect the problem is attributable to some kind of internal battery dying.

It does seem to me that this is a problem that lots of electronic gear must confront. In some cases replacing the gear may be a reasonable way to solve the problem. However, cameras can be a bit expensive and in this case I opted to buy the camera in question because of some specific and unique features that are NOT readily available on others at least for a price that would appeal to me. Therefore, replacement is NOT an option.

Seems like this is a problem that serious photographers must have to deal with and that it ought NOT be terribly difficult to solve. What about that?

My manufacturer seems to concur that the warranty is in effect. However, the process for obtaining the repair is fairly complicated. At least for something that seems like it should be simple. The camera has to be shipped to and from a repair facility. This imposes the risk of loss or further damage during shipment to say nothing of the possibility for such, as an unintended consequence, that can result when trying to fix anything.

I'm thinking that maybe I'd be better to live with the inconvenience of resetting the date and time whenever the battery gets changed. What I don't know is the possibility that failing to fix the problem could result in further more significant damage (e.g., from battery erosion). Possibly some of you have had a similar experience. In any event I'd be grateful for advice from those of you with a lot more experience than mine.

[Donald]

Two questions to answer, David:-
1. How important to you is you having the date and time available on the camera? i.e. Do you use that on the files you produce?
2. How frequently does the battery need changed?

Notwithstanding your concern that "failing to fix the problem could result in further more significant damage", about which I can't comment, I think answering the above questions will help decide what action to take.

[DanK]

Many cameras have a small 'backup' button battery that maintains settings. Have you checked that?

[royent]

It might help if we knew which camera

[ajax]

Two questions to answer, David:-
1. How important to you is you having the date and time available on the camera? i.e. Do you use that on the files you produce?
2. How frequently does the battery need changed?

Notwithstanding your concern that "failing to fix the problem could result in further more significant damage", about which I can't comment, I think answering the above questions will help decide what action to take.

I do make use of the date in my workflow for storing image files. Also add the date along with other information to many pictures that result from post processing. If I didn't fix the problem I would try to reset the date/time whenever I changed a battery. It would be a nuisance but NOT a major problem.

I'm an amateur photographer. Most of the shots I take are for developing pictures for myself and family. Typically fewer than a dozen shots at one time. I am prepared to change the battery when in the field taking shots but I have yet to need to do that. I usually do periodic battery replacement when transferring image files to my computer. Normally this is probably long before needed.

[ajax]

Many cameras have a small 'backup' button battery that maintains settings. Have you checked that?

Intuitively it seems to me that is the way it should work. All batteries eventually run out of power and need replacement. That ought NOT be considered a repair. Your inference that "many cameras" do that caused me to make a careful review of my User's Manual but I can NOT find any indication of such a feature.

[ajax]

It might help if we knew which camera

I purposely omitted that thinking that this is a pretty general problem that anyone, with any camera, might eventually experience.

The camera in question is a Canon EOS 5Ds R. I have contacted Canon and explained what was happening and they seem to agree that a repair is needed and that it is covered by the warranty. However, the camera needs to be shipped to their repair facility. Apparently, it cannot be done by a local authorized dealer. When I took it to the UPS Store, with whom Canon apparently has a special arrangement for such shipping, the price I was given is pretty high. I think this might have a lot to do with insuring it. The problem with that is that no matter what amount I might receive when it is lost, or seriously damaged, I won't be able to to get another one. I definitely understand the meaning of that famous saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" and think it applies here even if this technically qualifies as broken.

I suspect Canon has a current model with the same features but for a lot more money than what I paid. In that, this inconvenience could be seen as a cost of the low price for which I was able to get the outdated model with such features.

I suppose I need to pose the question to Canon about the risks associated with forgoing the repair.

[Manfred M]

My old pro video cameras had a user replaceable batter that performed those function to keep the clock and calendar going when the power was turned off. Newer cameras incorporated a small rechargeable battery to maintain these functions while the power was down; these are not user replaceable.

These cells can deteriorate over time and dendrite growth can end up shorting out the battery. This is likely to be a repair that has to be made at an authorized service centre.

[BobGilbody]

Hello David,

I use a 5Ds with a third party battery grip. The grip and two batteries [ all third party ] cost me about Aus $140. The balance of the camera is better. Two batteries instead of one.
Genuine Canon battery cost about Aus $200 each. Canon grip for a 5D Mk4 [ couldn't find a price for a Canon 5Ds ] Aus $450. In order to have a grip and two batteries I would have to pay about Aus $850 for genuine Canon or Aus $140 for third party.

My time is valuable. As an amateur happy snapper with a lot of time on my hands I price my hourly rate at no less than 10c. I rekon I can reset the time thing on the 5Ds in less than 30 minutes. Cost to me 5c.

My advice for what it is worth is not to bother getting the camera fixed.

Bob

[DanK]

If what you want is resolution in that ballpark, I believe the only current Canon model is the R5, which is an expensive camera.

[BobGilbody]

Hello Dan,
I bought my 5Ds from Hong Kong in May 2020. Cost about Aus $1850. It has never given any trouble. I don't clock up a lot of shutter clicks [ time spent using film maybe ] so it would be less than 25000 shutter activations. I wanted an R5 but the price was beyond me. Then Canon brought out the R7. I bought the R7 in Australia with a deal on the adapter thing so I could use the lenses I already had. I still use the 5Ds if I want the extra mega pixels and can fill the frame. The R7 was a game changer. If I had unlimited funds I would still use the R7 when I'm out in the bush chasing birds. I don't do that very often these days. The R7 costs about Aus $2000. For a lot less than the cost of an R5 I have a 5Ds and an R7.
It's all personal taste but I believe a lot of 'chasing the latest gizmo' is a load of horse doo doo. Canon are making a lot of money off people that have more money than sense. I use the R7 with electronic shutter and end up with more images than I can wave a mouse at. That's ok because occasional one of the images surprises me.

In regards to the original question from David:
I was wondering why it is necessary to switch the camera off. If I leave it switched on [ 5Ds ] it goes to sleep. I guess it makes sense to switch it off to change lenses or batteries but otherwise why not just leave it switched on?

Bob

[ajax]

Hello Dan,
...

In regards to the original question from David:
I was wondering why it is necessary to switch the camera off. If I leave it switched on [ 5Ds ] it goes to sleep. I guess it makes sense to switch it off to change lenses or batteries but otherwise why not just leave it switched on?

Bob

When it comes to switching the camera on and off, I'm thinking that does NOT have much to do with my problem. In my case, I've intended to turn the camera off whenever I'm done using it. This normally means done taking shots of a particular scene. Another interpretation could be whenever I put it back in the bag. However, I often forget to do so and have been inclined to think that the only possible harm is that more power was consumed/drained from the battery than necessary.

With respect to my problem I did try connecting the USB port to my computer before performing the battery change. Thinking being that the USB connection would supply power to the camera and this might keep the clock running when the battery is removed. However, it appears as though the battery is required/used to power the USB connection. When the battery is removed the connection to the computer is closed and the date/time gets reset just as it would otherwise.

[ajax]

To sum it all up I'm most grateful for the feedback.

While I was very tempted to avoid any risk of this kind of repair causing other worse problems I ended up sending it to the Canon Repair Center to be fixed. While I can NOT say that "dendrite growth" was on my mind Manfred's experience coincided with my own intuition which was also affirmed by the Canon repair service representative. In that, failing to fix the problem could result in future damage that is more severe. I also suspect that this is a fairly minor repair that may also be pretty common. What is likely uncommon is that in my case it occurred while the warranty was still in affect. Given that, along with the likelihood that the more serious damage that could result from forgoing the repair would NOT occur until the warranty expired, motivated me to go ahead and do it.

The Canon procedure for making the warranty claim was a bit of an ordeal but the repair has now been completed. I have yet to use the camera enough to say with certainty that NO harm resulted but at present it looks good.

Thanks again for the help.

[Manfred M]

To sum it all up I'm most grateful for the feedback.

While I was very tempted to avoid any risk of this kind of repair causing other worse problems I ended up sending it to the Canon Repair Center to be fixed. While I can NOT say that "dendrite growth" was on my mind Manfred's experience coincided with my own intuition which was also affirmed by the Canon repair service representative. In that, failing to fix the problem could result in future damage that is more severe. I also suspect that this is a fairly minor repair that may also be pretty common. What is likely uncommon is that in my case it occurred while the warranty was still in affect. Given that, along with the likelihood that the more serious damage that could result from forgoing the repair would NOT occur until the warranty expired, motivated me to go ahead and do it.

The Canon procedure for making the warranty claim was a bit of an ordeal but the repair has now been completed. I have yet to use the camera enough to say with certainty that NO harm resulted but at present it looks good.

Thanks again for the help.

I have never had a repair cause a worse problem.

Modern cameras are made of well designed interchangeable and replaceable parts. Something goes wrong, the technician opens up the camera body (bonus is that they clean the sensor while they are there) and replaces the part that is not working properly with one that is, reassembles it and tests the system to ensure it is running at factory specs.

[DanK]

Ditto. I have never had a problem introduced by repairs by the manufacturer or a competent independent shop.


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[Ken MT]

Is this any help?

https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/ind...t&id=ART154017

or this

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4180303

[ajax]

Glad to hear that camera repairs tend to go well. I'm old enough to have had many experiences, other than with cameras, that suggest there is wisdom in that standard warning that says "if it ain't broke don't fix it!". I would have chosen to live with this problem had it NOT been for the idea that there was reason to think that ignoring the problem could eventually result in otherwise avoidable damage.

It looks like the Canon EOS 5D, which apparently does use a replaceable battery, differs from my EOS 5Ds R. Based on other reference from Ken it looks like the EOS 5Ds R uses the capacitor approach. Have to guess that is what got replaced in my camera. When it comes to how long my clock could run without the battery installed, my test case simply involved removing it and then immediately reinstalling it. In that, less than a few seconds.

[Manfred M]

"if it ain't broke don't fix it!".

But is sounds like it was "broke" and you were still concerned about getting it fixed. It seems this was the right move...