Trips to Uzbekistan; will bringing tilt-shift lenses be worth it?

[lunaticitizen]

I'm going to go on several trips to Uzbekistan this year. They will be mainly to Tashkent, but I also have plans to go to Samarkand, Bukhara and maybe Kokand.

I want to try TS lenses for architecture on my Sony. For native mount there's only one viable option: LAOWA 15mm F4.5 Zero-D Shift. Laowa also has a 20mm shift lens but my dealer doesn't stock any.

I'm also thinking of adapting Canon TS lenses: TS-E17mm and either TS-E90mm or TS-E135mm.

I'm not going to purchase any of them yet because this will be my first time using a TS lens; I don't know if I'm going to like the experience. Therefore, only rentals for this year.

Do you think bringing TS lenses will be worth the hassle? I'm familiar with manual focus; my main go-to lens is a Voigtlander 35mm MF lens.

This one is from last year using the Voigtlander.

[The amateur]

Leo, the other day when I was looking to buy a new printer, I came across a site that teaches how to work with tilt-shift lenses and also compares different brands.

I think this will be useful for you.

Like in India, the two minarets on either side of the main temple are slightly converging, just a curiosity.

Have a good trip to Uzbekistan. !

[Manfred M]

Leo - I use a 24 mm perspective correcting Nikkor fairly frequently. Ideally, one uses a tripod when shooting one of these lenses as having the camera level is a key requirement to eliminate perspective correction. In situations where that is not practical, I use a bubble level in my camera’s hot shoe. I can get pretty close to being level that way and any minor perspective distortion is easy to fix in post.

[DanK]

Leo,

I plead ignorance, as I have never bought one despite coming very close several times. However, why I didn't buy one might be relevant. If I did mostly architectural work, I probably would have. I didn't, in the end, for three reasons: unless one carries a lot of lenses, one is stuck with one focal length, often wider than I would want; modest perspective correction is now usually fairly easy in postprocessing; and I don't want to lug yet more stuff.

For example, the Canon 90mm TS-E, which is a FL in the range I use often, weighs 915 g or 2 pounds. I don't know what the adapter would be, my by EF=>RF adapters weight about 100 g. So in total, over 1,000 g extra to lug. Then add the tripod and head. For me at this age, that's more additional than I want to lug along. In fact, one of the reasons I upgraded to the Canon R6 II from the 5D IV is because the 8-stop IS, combining IBIS and in-lens, allows me to leave my tripod at home a lot of the time.

But again, this is all predicated on the kinds of photography I do, as well as my aging back. And again, if I had experience using one, I might be convinced it's worth it. If you do buy one, I'd be eager to hear of your experience after the trip.

Dan

[lunaticitizen]

Thank you, everyone for your advice.

I just did a quick look at the lenses' weight and yeah, very heavy.. There's no Uber in Tashkent either, so last time I had to walk for more than 10 miles everyday just to get to the destination. At least I could shed some calories after eating those famous food.

I don't currently own a tripod Been thinking of getting one before the cherry blossom season.

I'm not getting younger, so if it's not now I don't think I will ever have a chance to handle such lenses.

Maybe I'll just give them a try. I'll go with the Canon lenses and one of the Metabones adapter. If I think they're too heavy I can just leave them in my hotel room..

Antonio, thanks for the pointer. I'm familiar with Keith Cooper. I even have one of his TS books, although I haven't had the chance to open it

[DanK]

I'm 74, and weight becomes more of an issue for me each year.

I think of it as two levels. One level is what I carry if I want to be quite well prepared. Given what I shoot, that's a 24-105, a 100mm macro, a 70-200 f/4, possibly a TC, the camera, a tripod, and various odds and ends. That's a manageable load but heavy for me at this stage, so I don't often do it. For more limited outings, I would chuck one of the two extra lenses and the tripod. Still a fair load, but not really unpleasant.

I never take my really heavy lens, a 100-400, unless I know I am likely to need it.

This is why I recently looked seriously at smaller sensors. If I could have found a suitably good APS-C option with both a good body and good lenses, I think I would have switched. I couldn't find what I wanted. The OM-1 is a spectacular camera, and the system weighs about half what I carry now, but I finally decided that for what I shoot, a 12-bit MFT sensor was a step too far for me. I may regret this later.

[The amateur]

Without wanting to deviate from the main subject of this thread, and in relation to photographic equipment, allow me to leave a quick opinion.

I went from Canon to Olympus and then to Sony FF, and I believe that the qualitative results of the lenses of this brand clearly surpass the others, despite still owning top-of-the-range lenses from both brands mentioned first.

As I am 75 and also have some difficulty in carrying optical material so I simply carry a camera and two prime lenses.
The use of fixed focal lengths allows me to solve most of the situations that I encounter, and when this is not possible, I simply conform to what I have and I am still happy !
-
Leo, when you are in Uzbekistan, try to visit non-touristy places (if they let you), without being watched or accompanied.
You may find interesting surprises.

[Manfred M]

I'm a bit younger than both Dan and Antonio, but I understand the weight issue. I tend to travel with my very long in the tooth Nikon D810 and the Nikkor 28-300mm lens to cut down on weight and volume.

If I know I am planning to do specialized photography I might add another lens or two to my bag and the 24mm Perspective correcting lens is one I will take if I am planning to shoot a lot of buildings (interiors and exteriors). Just as I would take a 400mm or 500mm lens if I were travelling and planning to shoot wildlife.

In trips where architecture is an important element of my photography, I am generally visiting places where I have a car (my own or a rental), so the carrying weight is only an issue lugging my gear through the airports. The advantages when I get back to process negates the extra weight as the image quality and the amount of post-processing are worth it to me.

This shot would not have been possible, in my view, had I used a standard lens.

[Chataignier]

In your original post you were able to view the subject from a good distance, so were able to keep the camera level or close to it. In Manfred's example, an interior, you cant get back far enough to limit the angle and, as he says, it would not be possible without a tilt shift (or a great deal of PP). I dont own a tilt shift, but I do like church interiors and so wish i did have one.

In the end I think it depends on how important the quality of architectural shots is to you. I get by with a lot of PP and the shots are not bad, but they would not win any competitions. Is "not bad" good enough for you ? If so you can save the weight.

[lunaticitizen]

In your original post you were able to view the subject from a good distance, so were able to keep the camera level or close to it. In Manfred's example, an interior, you cant get back far enough to limit the angle and, as he says, it would not be possible without a tilt shift (or a great deal of PP). I dont own one, but I do like church interiors and so wish i did have one.

In the end I think it depends on how important the quality of architectural shots is to you. I get by with a lot of PP and the shots are not bad, but they would not win any competitions. Is that enough for you ? If so you can save the weight.

Using the pic in my original post, probably next time I want to get as close as possible and having only the mosque in the frame. I'm thinking of using the shift lens to both get straight verticals and stitch multiple images together into a panorama. Then finally I'm going to get the resulting image printed out and hung on my wall!

There are also some Russian-style churches in Tashkent and I'd love to get inside them.
I'm going there for work and of course only have time on weekends, so chances might be limited.

[lunaticitizen]

I'm 74, and weight becomes more of an issue for me each year.

I think of it as two levels. One level is what I carry if I want to be quite well prepared. Given what I shoot, that's a 24-105, a 100mm macro, a 70-200 f/4, possibly a TC, the camera, a tripod, and various odds and ends. That's a manageable load but heavy for me at this stage, so I don't often do it. For more limited outings, I would chuck one of the two extra lenses and the tripod. Still a fair load, but not really unpleasant.

I never take my really heavy lens, a 100-400, unless I know I am likely to need it.

This is why I recently looked seriously at smaller sensors. If I could have found a suitably good APS-C option with both a good body and good lenses, I think I would have switched. I couldn't find what I wanted. The OM-1 is a spectacular camera, and the system weighs about half what I carry now, but I finally decided that for what I shoot, a 12-bit MFT sensor was a step too far for me. I may regret this later.

I had a Nikon 100-400mm, or was it 80-400mm and I brought it outside only twice before I gave it up to my university's photo club. I used to wonder why a photo club with almost no budget has lots of expensive equipment. Now I know alumni like me are the reason for that

For family outings I used to bring only my Fuji X100F before I gave it away. I've been trying to get another one but the prices I saw were outrageous.

[lunaticitizen]

Very nice picture, Manfred. I want to be able to take one like that.
Hopefully they'll let me use a tripod!

[lunaticitizen]

Without wanting to deviate from the main subject of this thread, and in relation to photographic equipment, allow me to leave a quick opinion.

I went from Canon to Olympus and then to Sony FF, and I believe that the qualitative results of the lenses of this brand clearly surpass the others, despite still owning top-of-the-range lenses from both brands mentioned first.

As I am 75 and also have some difficulty in carrying optical material so I simply carry a camera and two prime lenses.
The use of fixed focal lengths allows me to solve most of the situations that I encounter, and when this is not possible, I simply conform to what I have and I am still happy !
-
Leo, when you are in Uzbekistan, try to visit non-touristy places (if they let you), without being watched or accompanied.
You may find interesting surprises.

Hopefully I can finish my work early so I can have some days off!
I've been perfectly happy with just a 35mm lens, but this time I want to try something different.

[Manfred M]

Very nice picture, Manfred. I want to be able to take one like that.
Hopefully they'll let me use a tripod!

That is a hand-held image, using a hot shoe mounted bubble level. The image needed a little bit of perspective correction in post, but not much. Unfortunately, a lot of places do not allow the use of a tripod, especially for interior shots.

[lunaticitizen]

That is a hand-held image, using a hot shoe mounted bubble level. The image needed a little bit of perspective correction in post, but not much. Unfortunately, a lot of places do not allow the use of a tripod, especially for interior shots.

Oh I'm impressed, Manfred. It looks very sharp.

[William W]

I'm going to go on several trips to Uzbekistan this year. They will be mainly to Tashkent, but I also have plans to go to Samarkand, Bukhara and maybe Kokand. I want to try TS lenses for architecture on my Sony.

For Architecture, (especially as you go on to describe the type of images you want to make), a Tilt Shift Lens is arguably not necessary. A Shift Lens would be more than adequate for the outcomes you desire. Next, would be to choose an appropriate Focal Length. (Note: Nikon's nomenclature for their Tilt Shift Lenses is "PC" - Perspective Control)

For native mount there's only one viable option: LAOWA 15mm F4.5 Zero-D Shift.

As already implied, this is not a Tilt Shift Lens, it is a Shift Lens. The “Zero-D” claim is appropriate (it’s not ‘zero’ but very close). The15mm FL would suit most Interior and Exterior Architecture shots.

I'm also thinking of adapting Canon TS lenses: TS-E17mm and either TS-E90mm or TS-E135mm.

The TS-E 17 would be my (better) Focal Length choice for the One Shot and Interior and Exterior Architecture.

I'm not going to purchase any of them yet because this will be my first time using a TS lens; I don't know if I'm going to like the experience. Therefore, only rentals for this year.

I concur renting is a good idea. Even better idea rent for a few weeks well before you go overseas, and at a time when you have a lot of time to practice and to really see if you like the idea.

I don't currently own a tripod

It is a challenge using a Shift Lens (with Shift Movement engaged) without a tripod, but not impossible; I prefer to use a Tripod and would advise that for you. However, as already mentioned, Tripods are sometimes not allowed, especially inside; in this situation, the Shift Movement is still useful, though expect to perform some minor (or major) tweaking of convergence or divergence, in Post Production.

The extent of how close to correct you get the Shift Movement, whilst Hand Holding, will depend on your skill level, which, in turn will be more than likely dependent on amount of practice you do. Hence the advice to rent before you travel and have a good practice.

Note well, however: on the other hand, engaging the Shift Movement when either or both of the Lens’s Axes are slightly skewed to the Scene, could make for a more difficult Post Production than if one simply used a quality W/A (not Shift) Lens and made it square in all respects and then corrected (the equally) Converging Verticals in Post Production.

Like Manfred, I have a bubble level that clips into my Cameras’ Hot Shoes – that deals with Vertical Squareness. Horizontal Squareness is accommodated by getting the Camera’s Viewpoint into the middle of the Scene and using Verticals at the edges of the Scene to align The Shot.

Using the pic in my original post, probably next time I want to get as close as possible and having only the mosque in the frame. I'm thinking of using the shift lens to both get straight verticals and stitch multiple images together into a panorama. Then finally I'm going to get the resulting image printed out and hung on my wall!

Although the advertising for the LAOWA 15/4.5 Shift shows some nice stitching, my choice of the three lenses you mention would be the TS-E 90 for this very specific task.

My opinion is the TS-E 50mm f/2.8L Macro Tilt Shift would be the very best lens for this very specific task.

There are also some Russian-style churches in Tashkent and I'd love to get inside them.

Re-iterating, for interior a more flexible and suitable FL would be the 15mm (or 17mm).

Do you think bringing TS lenses will be worth the hassle? I'm familiar with manual focus; my main go-to lens is a Voigtlander 35mm MF lens. I'm not getting younger, so if it's not now I don't think I will ever have a chance to handle such lenses. Maybe I'll just give them a try. I'll go with the Canon lenses and one of the Metabones adapter. If I think they're too heavy I can just leave them in my hotel room.

I think renting now and playing with the lens now, (i.e. well before you travel) is the most effective way to answer your question and to satisfy your curiosity: I do strongly advise you get a suitable Tripod and Head, to allow you the best appreciation of the experience.

Good luck with your choices.

WW

For reference:
> I own and use the TS-E 17 and the TS-E 90.
> I have used the LAOWA 15mm F4.5 Zero-D Shift (5 Blades version).
> I have Canon 135 Format DSLRs (aka “full frame”).
> For Interior Architecture, I sometimes use an IRIX 11mm F/4, sometimes the TS-E 17/4L, and (most often) my EF 16 to 35/2.8L, (high quality) Zoom Lenses combined with good technique to square the lens's axes when shooting and the correction of convergences in Post Production is a light weight and economical solution to mostly all Interior Architecture Shots.
> For Exterior (tall) Architecture, the TS-E 17 and in some situations TS-E 90 are wonderful lenses, that stated, if a non-Shift Lens is square in all respect to the Scene, then Post Production Correction of Vertical Convergence is most suitable in many/most scenarios, moreover suitable for mostly all common uses/purposes of the Final Image: but that doesn't have the fun (or pain) of using the Shift Movement.
> I have a suitable Tripod and Head System, including a Complete Panoramic System.
> I can’t remember ever taking a tripod when I was ‘on holiday’, though, yes, definitely I would take Tripod and Head if I were working in a location for a period of time.
> My Panoramic System is a whole different kettle of kippers: I believe I have used it twice, and that was for a specific job to earn money (including payment for the system). I reckon you could get a good stitch for your wall photo without the intrigue and expense of (for example) a Novoflex Multi Row Panorama System.
> For stitching shots, my first choice is my EF 50 F/2.5 Macro, the next is the TS-E 90 – a major criterion is the Flatness of the Field (of the Lens).

[DanK]

Bill,

Welcome back. Had it seen you here for a while.

Dan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[William W]

Dan,

Thank you.
Sincerely appreciate your comment.
No particular reason for my lull in contributions here - other stuff has got in the way of my (three) forum activities, not anything bad, just busy, I am still alive and kicking.

Bill

[lunaticitizen]

Bill, thank you for your detailed advice.
I'm going to read it properly and reply as soon as I have some free time this weekends.

[lunaticitizen]

I've been swamped with work and haven't had any time to rent the equipment to practice

And our secretary filled out the wrong date on the biz trip application to the boss for the date we're supposed to come back. Now I'll have to come back to Tokyo on Feb 23 instead of Feb 28. I was planning to use the weekends to go to Samarkand from our base in Tashkent

I'm now planning to rent just the following equipment for the trip:
- Canon TS-E17mm
- Metabones EF-E adapter
- Manfrotto 055 tripod plus a ball head
- ROGETI TSE FRAME Mark 3+