Back to the future

[pschlute]

https://pentax.eu/products/pentax-17

over 20 years since they released a film camera..... quite excited by this.

[Manfred M]

I was quite intrigued by the large number of my classmates who were shooting film (both still and motion picture) while I was attending school last year.

Everyone in the first year program was shooting medium format, usually B&W. A number of the second year students continued shooting medium format, but a few we also working in large format (usually 4" x 5") in both B&W, colour print film and hand-coated glass plates. Some did a bit of *" x 10" camera work (B&W film and paper negatives).

They loved all the aspects of film photography that I disliked, the quirkiness of film, but disliked the costs associated with the materials.

I'm not at all surprised to see a film camera on the market, especially one that controls the costs by going to a format that uses a negative that is the size of a traditional 35mm motion picture frame.

[DanK]

I don't share the nostalgia for film and frankly don't understand it. Digital at this point provides an incomparably more powerful set of tools for creating the image you want. It also saves a huge amount of money that can be put to other purposes.

That aside, this new camera is a toy, and it's clearly aimed at novices. The shutter speed range is only 1/350 to 4 seconds. It has only a single metering mode (partial), which is meager for camera at this price. It has no AF and seems not even to have continuous manual focusing, instead offering a choice among 6 distance ranges. It does offer aperture priority shooting, but neither manual nor shutter priority. By way of comparison, roughly the same amount of money buys the Canon EOS Rebel T7 DSLR Camera with 18-55mm and 75-300mm Lenses. The Canon has none of these limitations, and it has has a sensor and electronics that contribute to cost and that the new pentax doesn't have.

There are clues in the materials too. For example, it touts the fact that it "provides users with the fun and excitement of manual camera operation unique to film photography, such as manual film winding using the film advance lever". I used manual film winding levers countless times over the years, and I never found that to provide "excitement". The product information PDF follows in the same pattern:

The film advance lever lets the user enjoy the film winding action and a wind-up sound after every shutter release. Its easy-loading system is designed to prevent film-loading errors, especially for first-time film camera users.

Frankly, this strikes me as trying to take advantage of naive novices who won't recognize how bad a deal it is. It's a real shame because when Pentax was Asahi Pentax, it produced truly fine 35mm film cameras. I think the Pentax back then was the most common SLR among photographers I knew.

[Dave Humphries]

Frankly, this strikes me as trying to take advantage of naive novices who won't recognize how bad a deal it is. It's a real shame because when Pentax was Asahi Pentax, it produced truly fine 35mm film cameras. I think the Pentax back then was the most common SLR among photographers I knew.

I agree Dan, but worse than that, could you imagine being gifted one? (from someone you care for that thinks they're being kind, that would require an OSCAR winning performance to avoid them being disappointed in our reaction)

Sadly the reality is that business is just that, business - which happens, in the case of Pentax, to be by selling cameras, these days there's no incentive for them to be good cameras.

Dave

[escape]

It's a big marketplace with all kinds of niches and buyers. That being said, my birthday is coming up.

[Manfred M]

Dan, Dave (and of course me) are obviously not the market niche Ricoh / Pentax are trying to cover here.

I still own film Leica and Hasselblad cameras (as well as film processing hardware). I keep planning to use them, but just have not so yet...

[DanK]

My point was that if they want to introduce a new film camera at that price, it ought to have the features widely available at that price, including manual and shutter priority operation, AF and continuous MF, multiple metering modes, a reasonable range of shutter speeds, and a hot shoe. They appear to be trying to take advantage of the naivete of some novice users who won't realize how primitive this camera is relative to the competition at that price point. This is independent of the choice between film and digital, except for the fact that they are using nostalgia for film (the excitement of winding film all by yourself) to hook unwary buyers.

[pschlute]

The comments here from experienced photographers echoes those on a Pentax-specific forum where I moderate.

I think the point is that photographers who cut their teeth on film cameras in the last century, and have become skilful in the use of digital cameras, and equally important, software, are not the intended target for this camera.

It is aimed at a much younger demographic, who are embracing analogue technology, in the same way that vinyl records are having a resurgence. I don't quite understand it myself, but then I cannot place myself in the shoes of someone who has only grown up in the digital age. The use of the half-frame 35mm format is also interesting as it produces an image orientation similar to a smartphone.

Pentax have made clear that this is the first of possibly three film cameras they may produce, one of which, if it comes to market will be an interchangeable lens 35mm full frame with a lot more features regarding exposure and focussing control than this. I do understand they had to get a number of technicians out of retirement to create this one as the skills and knowledge to create a manual wind film camera were almost lost.

The growth in film sales in recent years is testament to the fact that it is a resurgent market, despite almost dying 15 years ago. The camera may not be for us, but I think the intended market will snap it up, if you will forgive the pun.

[DanK]

I still think they should price it substantially cheaper given how stripped down it is. I've had a variety of cameras since 1964 or so, and with the exception of a specialty camera, I can't recall ever having one that didn't even have continuous focus. It's fine if there is a market for a bare-bones camera like this, but they shouldn't try to persuade newbies to pay as much as would pay for a much more capable camera, if the newbies thought to compare it to digital.

[Dave Humphries]

~ The use of the half-frame 35mm format is also interesting as it produces an image orientation similar to a smartphone.

Yes, I thought that too
I'm sure it will sell more cameras.

[Manfred M]

Yes, I thought that too
I'm sure it will sell more cameras.

Agreed, Dave.

On the other hand, I have always wondered why people seem to have a problem rotating their cameras / phones 90 degrees to take a shot in a different and often more suitable orientation...

[JDW in Oz]

Yes, I thought that too
I'm sure it will sell more cameras.

The BIG elephant in the analog room here is that film is now almost 100% niche.

New camera buyers are young, cashed up, can easily afford film, and quickly lose interest. I base the latter part of this comment on what I see in secondhand camera shops everywhere - almost new film gear on offer for cents on the dollar.


In Singapore recently - yes, Singapore! - an as new, recently CLA'd Leica M6 was on the shelf for AUD $4500 with a full warranty. Dealer said he was open to offers, but not being cashed up I sadly had to pass on it.

Later I thought about this, and decided that with two Contax G1s and four lenses, a Leica LTM and two Nikkormats with a bag of F-AI-AIS Nikkors, also a shelf full of post-2000 plastic-body Nikons that do everything for the user except brew the coffee, all of which I use at most once a year, I really had no need for a new film baby for that shelf. But wIdo have my fantasies...

In Australia now, buying a five-pack of anything made of film is more an investment than a purchase. Ebay has dried up on outdated film. An occasional can of bulk film, some 20+ years old, when it gets posted on that sad site, are on BIN offer for more than a new can of same or close to at one of our retail dealers' shops.

I have two cans of Panatomic-X, one of Tri-X and, as I recently discovered, two cans of Plus-X in our freezer at home. With a little careful planning an Ebay sale should easily fund a round the world cruise for us...

All only my wayward thoughts. Knives and swords to stay in their scabbards, please.

[Dave Humphries]

On the other hand, I have always wondered why people seem to have a problem rotating their cameras / phones 90 degrees to take a shot in a different and often more suitable orientation...

Absolutely, it drives me nuts when one of the family share a picture or movie that has bits missing left or right and an acre of sky (causing under exposure) and foreground contributing nothing to the subject!

[Manfred M]

Absolutely, it drives me nuts when one of the family share a picture or movie that has bits missing left or right and an acre of sky (causing under exposure) and foreground contributing nothing to the subject!

These are often the same people that tell us that photography is easy; all one has to do it press the shutter release...