NON Square Cropped Portraits - (nSCP's) - Archive

Ah, I see what you mean Antonio, although I didn't notice it earlier with just a casual viewing.

I would say it probably is a wide radius, over sharpening problem, unusually the black halo is as bad as the white.

These days I rarely go over 60% if the radius is over 0.5, even if, as here, a higher threshold has been set to avoid sharpening the skin detail too much. The other thing it could be is too fierce a setting on a sharpen brush, which has been applied to the edges to remove the need for an overall sharpening. Time, or more accurately, Alis, will tell ;)

I have some family portraits shot in a restaurant to PP, if there's anything decent, I'll post in the appropriate SCP/nSCP thread.

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Originally Posted by Alis

I like the comments to be a little bit more than the usual "good shot" and "nice job", etc.

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OK - out of politeness I wasn't going to say this, but since your demanding a "frank and open critique" of your work, then who am I to hold back

Here goes ...

Of recent I've been evaluating your work in terms of sharpness - exposure - colour accuracy (especially skin tones) - composition and - frankly - I'm having a difficult time faulting them in any of these categories, and I have to say that that's a pretty unusual circumstance for me!

So perhaps I too am reduced to the "nice shot" catagory of commentator!:eek:

So - where too from here? Well - boarders was one suggestion, but I'm wondering if the biggest improvement now needs to come from you in terms of increasing your percentage of keepers. In my mind, this is one of the differences between professional and amateur shooting - to a degree an amateur takes as many shots as he likes and then keeps just the ones that "turn out", whereas a professional (or someone wanting to shoot to professional standards) needs to have confidence that he can predict the outcome before he takes the shot (eg an amateur may come up with 1 good shot of a model whereas when a professional shoots there needs to be many good shots so that the best can later be chosen; in this case correct lighting - exposure - sharpening etc have to be taken as a "given"). Hopefully you get what I'm meaning (I'm not explaining it very well). Perhaps the other angle of looking at it is that you need to be able to analyse any situation to immediately get the best out of it, even when it's not ideal.

Final note - if you haven't already, go grab a copy of Joe McNally's "The Moment it Clicks" - it's literally full of examples of what I'm trying (badly) to articulate here - along with overviews of how the shot was taken - and a lot of easy-reading commentary. VERY highly recommended - very inspirational too.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Dave Humphries

I have some family portraits shot in a restaurant to PP, if there's anything decent, I'll post in the appropriate SCP/nSCP thread.

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Having read Colin's "savaging" ;), as you can see I still fall very firmly into the amateur sector, with only an expectation that some might "turn out" ok :)

Also, did you notice how I set the scene Antonio?
i.e. don't blame me if the backgrounds are rubbish - it is the restaurant's fault! :D

Cheers,

On your Raul pic, Antonio.

Do you think he can here a pulse through her sleeve?

:)

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Originally Posted by Antonio Correia

http://antoniocorreia.smugmug.com/ph...4_uhzua-XL.jpg

Couldn't chose the background ! ... :mad:

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I'll bet I have something in common with Ali here - I'm guessing were the only two photographers here who also have our own stethoscope and spygmomanometer:eek:

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

I'll bet I have something in common with Ali here - I'm guessing were the only two photographers here who also have our own stethoscope and spygmomanometer:eek:

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Well.... I do! Learn something new everyday! Can't tell you how many blood pressures I take in a day at work! ;) Here I was enjoying the end of my vacation (had a great 10 days off!!!)and you make me think of work....:( LOL

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Originally Posted by batman44

Well.... I do! Learn something new everyday! Can't tell you how many blood pressures I take in a day at work! ;) Here I was enjoying the end of my vacation (had a great 10 days off!!!)and you make me think of work....:( LOL

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Oops - sorry about that! In a "previous life" I was quite heavily involved in SCUBA diving instruction and diving medicine (even have my own otoscope).

Actually, it reminds me of my last aviation medical - I took my own blood pressure prior to popping along to see the Doc (something like 130/80 off memory) ... when I got there the nurse did "the preliminaries" (height, weight, BP etc), and came up with 130/90 (creaping up a bit too high). So when I saw the Doc I said jokingly that I wanted to lodge an offical protest :) He took it again and said "I'll be the final judge" ... 130/80 it was :) Actually, I must take it again sometime soon:eek: (although I suspect it'll be fine - doing a lot of running these days - got resting pulse down into the forties!).

Otoscope... me too! I have extra Specula's that my cats love to play with! LOL
SCUBA diving... wow, very cool!:D
Guess you do learn something everyday after all!

Very good Blood Pressure and I'm very impresses (not surprised) of your resting pulse! Mine is much higher...always has been! I'm not the "resting" type of person though. Always on the go! :D:D

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Originally Posted by batman44

Otoscope... me too! I have extra Specula's that my cats love to play with! LOL

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Hmm - OK - How about a tuning fork (got to go one up on you with something here!)?

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SCUBA diving... wow, very cool!:D
Guess you do learn something everyday after all!

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All previous life stuff unfortunately (a bit like aviation), although who knows - perhaps closer to retirement I'll be able to get back in to some of these things.

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Very good Blood Pressure and I'm very impresses (not surprised) of your resting pulse! Mine is much higher...always has been! I'm not the "resting" type of person though. Always on the go! :D:D

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The resting pulse has even surprised me a little, but perhaps the blood pressure even more. Still working on losing extra pounds ... think I'll try and work up to a 1/2 marathon (quite refreshing actually - only been back in to running for the past 3 or 4 months ... thought those days were long gone). Perhaps I can be fitter at 50 next year than I was at 20? :)

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

Hmm - OK - How about a tuning fork (got to go one up on you with something here!)?

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Okay - you win.... I could probably one or two up you -where I work (Women's Health) but it would be like cheating! :D

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The resting pulse has even surprised me a little, but perhaps the blood pressure even more. Still working on losing extra pounds ... think I'll try and work up to a 1/2 marathon (quite refreshing actually - only been back in to running for the past 3 or 4 months ... thought those days were long gone).

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That would be great to do a marathon! Good Luck!!!! Running is addicting!:)

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Perhaps I can be fitter at 50 next year than I was at 20? :)

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At 20 were probably weren't in as good of shape as we thought we were.....Remember at that age: no sleep, no exercise, ate lots of junk food...etc :D

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Originally Posted by batman44

Okay - you win.... I could probably one or two up you -where I work (Women's Health) but it would be like cheating! :D

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Best I don't go there!

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That would be great to do a marathon! Good Luck!!!! Running is addicting!:)

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I think I'll aim for a 1/2 marathon for openers, but who knows!

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At 20 were probably weren't in as good of shape as we thought we were.....Remember at that age: no sleep, no exercise, ate lots of junk food...etc :D

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Actually, I wasn't ever into drinking / partying etc, and was actually pretty fit in the late seventies and eighties - would think nothing of having an evening meal - popping out for an 8 mile run then quick shower and off to watch a movie. Somewhere along the line I got old though!

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

Actually, I wasn't ever into drinking / partying etc, and was actually pretty fit in the late seventies and eighties - would think nothing of having an evening meal - popping out for an 8 mile run then quick shower and off to watch a movie. Somewhere along the line I got old though!

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Good for you! One of the good ole boys!:)
I didn't party much - I was in gymnastics so that was a NO NO NO!!!! And then the legal drinking age of 21 here...I was 8 months pregnant! :eek:
Not a drinker type of person - I like the occassional glass of wine! :D:D

I don't know about "old"..... just OLDER!!!;)

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Originally Posted by Antonio Correia

Back to your shot:
There is something peculiar in her arms. I mean around them. They are too sharp.

It looks even you applied too much of unsharp mask or whatever and we can even see a small halo around. Pixelization that's what I see when the image is enlarged.
My be I am wrong, OK. :)
Around her arms there is something and I don't know what.:rolleyes: but there is something there.

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You are absolutely right, Antonio. I know have been doing something wrong that I have started to fix very slowly recently.

First of all, as you and Dave guessed, this is patly or in some shots of mine from that second sharpening that I apply to the image and paint it over some areas, mostly the foreground subject, and may have over done it.

I use a radius of 3-5 and amount of up to 50-60 and frankly in some of these shots, I don't see any differene when I go up on these numbers (may be I am not that sensitive to the effect) and I just use the highest numeber which is that 50-60 for amount. That is one part of it.

The other one is that I paint over some areas in the picture and then change the exposure locally and sometimes when I do it I have a problematic shot and I adjust the values too much and that is the border you see on the pictures.

I have recently been trying to use the curve adjustment so that I do not have to select areas. The problem I have with the curve is that I touch it and everything goes crazy.

So I am working on that skill right now and am watching some videos on how to do it in a more subtle way that actually helps and does not destroy the image. I am guessing that it is probably easier to do it on non-portrait images but on portraits it easily affects skin :mad:

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

OK - out of politeness I wasn't going to say this, but since your demanding a "frank and open critique" of your work, then who am I to hold back

Here goes ...

Of recent I've been evaluating your work in terms of sharpness - exposure - colour accuracy (especially skin tones) - composition and - frankly - I'm having a difficult time faulting them in any of these categories, and I have to say that that's a pretty unusual circumstance for me!

So perhaps I too am reduced to the "nice shot" catagory of commentator!:eek:

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Thanks, Colin! You did not have to be so harsh. :p

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So - where too from here?... Well - boarders was one suggestion, but I'm wondering if the biggest improvement now needs to come from you in terms of increasing your percentage of keepers.

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I think you are right on. I have been abusing the camera a lot, it is always on burst mode, I bought a lot of CF cards, carry about 50 GB memory with me all the time, of course mostly for the HD video 5D MKII can record now, but anyway, it is a guarrantee that I will have enough space and get lazy and shoot without thinking. My excuse is that my subjects never pose for me and I do not have any time to set up anything but I guess that is a skill I have to work on as my subjects start learning to pose for me in a few years. :)

The problem currenty it creates for me is that I then can not decide which one to delete and which one to keep as they are all sort of bad and I end up with tens of gigabytes of data every time I step out of the house with camera.

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Final note - if you haven't already, go grab a copy of Joe McNally's "The Moment it Clicks" - ... and a lot of easy-reading commentary. VERY highly recommended - very inspirational too.:cool:

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Easy-reading commentary is what I need. Thanks!

It is interesting Alis, I have done a few more portraits today and suddenly I find I am using sharpening settings I never usually do for other subjects.

However, this may just be because I was shooting handheld at ISO3200 at narrow DoF and sub 1/100s shutter speeds and they're all soft to start with :(

Your comments on Curves made me laugh, I avoid it too!
and I'm not sure what I have in Elements is all that comparable to CS3/4.

btw I got another Adobe offer to go CS4 for 1/2 price again (being a registered PSE6 user), might have to do it this time! I doubt they'll give me a third chance. Just not sure my little laptop is gonna be up to the job, HDD already overfull and the external one is getting there too. :(

Back on topic:
You are looking at 100% zoom to see the effects of sharpening, aren't you?
and clicking the Preview checkbox on and off repeatedly, this only affects the main image, not the little preview pane.

Sorry if you knew all that, just looking for reasons why.

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by Dave Humphries

On your Raul pic, Antonio.

Do you think he can here a pulse through her sleeve?

:)

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Dave, this is a technique doctors use when they do not want to hear the patient talking. :D

In medical profession, no one care about those sounds you hear on the stethoscope anymore. :cool:

I went to one birthday party (no ligh almost by the way and I spend a lot of ISO over there not having my flash with me) and poor Antonio's thread turned into a medical forum. :eek:

I am sure he will be more carefull about the content of his pictures as much as with the technique.:p

By the way, anyone with an echocardiography machine here? :p

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Originally Posted by Alis

By the way, anyone with an echocardiography machine here? :p

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Is that one that uses ultrasound to image the heart on a monitor?
Or just the chart on paper jobby with a wiggly pen?

Doesn't really matter, I don't have either ;)

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Originally Posted by Dave Humphries

Is that one that uses ultrasound to image the heart on a monitor?
Or just the chart on paper jobby with a wiggly pen?

Doesn't really matter, I don't have either ;)

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Of course it has to do with images! I was thinking of starting a thread on echo images. The machines can do color images too so it is no all black and white ;)

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

...In my mind, this is one of the differences between professional and amateur shooting - to a degree an amateur takes as many shots as he likes and then keeps just the ones that "turn out", whereas a professional (or someone wanting to shoot to professional standards) needs to have confidence that he can predict the outcome before he takes the shot (eg an amateur may come up with 1 good shot of a model whereas when a professional shoots there needs to be many good shots so that the best can later be chosen; in this case correct lighting - exposure - sharpening etc have to be taken as a "given")...
Final note - if you haven't already, go grab a copy of Joe McNally's "The Moment it Clicks" - it's literally full of examples of what I'm trying (badly) to articulate here - along with overviews of how the shot was taken - and a lot of easy-reading commentary. VERY highly recommended - very inspirational too.:cool:

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I agree about this subject of professional versus amateur.
So the book is good. Have to go and see how much it costs.:)
You made me go and see it again. David Hobby from the Strobist deserves me another kind of thought. Oh well, it is just a subjective matter.
Some 40 US$