Dare I mention the 'W' word?

[GlenM]

Wedding! There - I said it!

My niece is getting married later in the year. She has booked a photographer for the event.

But, she has asked me if I can take my camera and do some candid shots to show the flavour of the day (and evening reception).

Any advice (apart from 'don't do it!')? Obviously, I will make sure I don't get in the way of the official photographer (and the aim is not to replicate their shots).

Bear in mind that I have only been using a dslr for a couple of months and am still learning!

All advice welcome

Glen

[Donald]

If you haven't got one yet, get yourself a very good flashgun and the means to get it off the top of the camera - either by radio transmitters or a cord. And learn lots and lots about flash photography.

And if you can persuade someone - draft them in as an assistant to hold the gun for you. Otherwise your need to press your left arm into the assistant role and shoot holding the camera with one hand only.

[GlenM]

Sounds like a job for one of my sons!

I was looking at getting a flash anyway. Given that I'm on a budget (read tight fisted!) I was looking at alternatives to the Canon Speedlite range. I have heard that some of the budget flashes from Yongnuo are considered good (for the price), but not necessarily 'very good'. I can get a yn-468 for around £60. I realise it will nto be as good as a Canon, but then it is much much cheaper.
Any opinions or experience with these?

How about lenses? At present I have the 18-55 kit, and a nifty-fifty. Will this give me an excuse to get someting better/longer?

Glen

[Clactonian]

You have the best of both worlds Glen.
A family wedding to attend and enjoy, with an official photographer to officially record the day. You can relax and take those candid shots without any pressure. Timing is less critical, and the pressure to succeed much reduced. Take plenty of cards (I would always use several lower capacity cards rather than one or two of larger capacity, but have a system for keeping used and new apart!!) and just shoot away. Be prepared to discard plenty, but I bet you'll end up with some classics.
I had the opportunity to do a similar job at my son's wedding a couple of years back and ended up with a hundred or so keepers to treasure.
Just a thought, looking at your kit. You might be better off getting a longer reach zoom with your cash if its a daytime wedding and then using your 50mm with the on-board flash at the reception. Most of my candids were taken with a 70-300.

[GlenM]

I'm actually quite lookign forward to it. If I had been asked to take 'official' photos, I think I would have changed my name and emigrated!

I'll probably be getting the flash anyway. I'm not too unhappy about spending £60 on a 3rd party flash - if I get the urge to upgrade to a Canon later it will still be OK as an extra off camera flash.

But the idea of a new lens is tempting as well. What would you suggest - a Canon 55-250 / 70-300 to be swapped out as required with my 18-55, or would I be better with a Tamron/Sigma 18-250 / 18-270 which would save the hassle of changing? Does the potential image degradation of the superzooms outweigh the convenience?

[jeeperman]

Glen, I can tell you if it comes to getting a longer lense it would be wise to figure out what type of shots you will use it for in the future. The up to 200mm might work great for the wedding but if you later want to shoot birds you might think about going to a 70- 300 or there about. 300 is really the minimum for birds. I have a 70-300 and when I can will go to a 400mm prime. Once you know what your intended uses will be, it will be easier for everyone to suggest a particular lense.

[Wirefox]

For candids a longer zoom is essential. Great excuse for a 70-200mm f2.8 L IS failing that something close to that focal range but be aware of limitions in low light.

Talk to the official photographer. You will need to stay out of his way for formals. He will not want people wondering who to say cheese to. Formals tend to look a little goofy when everyone is looking at a different photographer. Agree a protocol and stick to it

Personally I would be wary of a very cheap speedlite. Rob Marshall (I think) has recommended Nissin guns elsewhere on CiC. That may be worth a look.

You are very lucky in that the pressure is off you and you are not the prime photographer. Just enjoy your day

[Shadowman]

The best advice, stay away from the official photographer unless he is on his break. Then would be the only time to quiz him or her on their technique and only do so if it is offered. You don't want to appear as a poacher for future jobs. Let them know why you are doing what you are doing.

[Hansm]

The best advice, stay away from the official photographer unless he is on his break. Then would be the only time to quiz him or her on their technique and only do so if it is offered. You don't want to appear as a poacher for future jobs. Let them know why you are doing what you are doing.

A photographer having a break during a wedding shoot?

Anyway, stay out of his/her way and the most important, enjoy the weddding!

[Nomadr]

one good thing is that the happy couple will feel relaxed with you so you should get some nice shots, some good advice already given like not shooting over the main togs shoulder, when i did a similar job i told the main tog straightaway what i was doing,i also told him i wouldnt be shooting over his shoulder and if i got in the way of a shot just tell me to shift, that cleared the air,lol.
also if its a good pro you could get some decent tips just by watching what he does, cheers martyn

[GlenM]

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

I'll make sure I stay out of the official photographer's way, and will roam the periphery getting the candids!

I'll have a think about lenses (and budget) and come back with more questions later.

Cheers
Glen

[Shadowman]

What camera?

What time of the year is the Wedding?

What time of day is the Church Service?

What is the expected Weather Conditions?

How big is the Church? Do you want to take Photos in the Church?
If so the 50/1.8 might be useful there - BUT you need to think about where you will be sitting in the Church . . . and then you need to decide IF you want to be taking Photographs, in the Church.


The Canon Speedlight EX 430 will suffice as a Flash unit. I suggest you have very good reasons and knowledge NOT to buy a dedicated Canon unit.
If you intend to use Flash - you should buy the Flash Unit sooner rather than later and practice.
Investigate "ABBC" = "A Better Bounce Card"


The 18 to 55 / 3.5 - 5.6 will be a more useful lens to use at the Reception than the 50/1.8, if you use Flash.



The best "what happened at the Wedding" Photos will be usually be taken if you are nowhere near the Paid Photographer - BUT you need to have the skill of grabbing those moments candidly and a LONGER lens (than 50mm) will not necessarily allow you to do that easily, especially indoors at the Reception. Though this seems counter intuitive to many folk, it is simple Maths. To leverage the Best Camera Vantage Point in a crowded room the closer you are to the Subject the less the length of travel around the arc of the circumference you need to travel to avoid any interference and / or to move with the Subjects’ head.


I await some answers, thanks,


WW

One good thing about this unofficial gig is that Glen will be able to test out his existing equipment in each environment. Knowing the capabilities of each lens beforehand, and the capabilities of the camera, will assist him in choosing the right gear. This won't be a good time to start trying out new lenses. , unless you are just adventurous like that. Usually when I travel I take my DSLR and my bridge camera, but knowing the difficulty my bridge (Nikon P90) has with indoor shots I probably wouldn't use it that much. By the way, did anyone mention extra batteries?

[William W]

What camera?

What time of the year is the Wedding?

What time of day is the Church Service?

What is the expected Weather Conditions?

How big is the Church? Do you want to take Photos in the Church?
If so the 50/1.8 might be useful there - BUT you need to think about where you will be sitting in the Church . . . and then you need to decide IF you want to be taking Photographs, in the Church.

The Canon Speedlite EX 430 will suffice as a Flash unit. I suggest you have very good reasons and knowledge NOT to buy a dedicated Canon unit.
If you intend to use Flash - you should buy the Flash Unit sooner rather than later and practice.
Investigate "ABBC" = "A Better Bounce Card"

The 18 to 55 / 3.5 - 5.6 will be a more useful lens to use at the Reception than the 50/1.8, if you use Flash.

The best "what happened at the Wedding" Photos will be usually be taken if you are nowhere near the Paid Photographer - BUT you need to have the skill of grabbing those moments candidly and a LONGER lens (than 50mm) will not necessarily allow you to do that easily, especially indoors at the Reception. Though this seems counter intuitive to many folk, it is simple Maths. To leverage the Best Camera Vantage Point in a crowded room the closer you are to the Subject the less the length of travel around the arc of the circumference you need to travel to avoid any interference and / or to move with the Subjects’ head.

Example:


CANDID_GUEST_RECEPTION
5D + 50/1.4.
Shot from across the table at SD ≈ 10ft (Landscape Orientation)
(Note: that is a FL≈ 30mm on your APS-C format camera)

In the above sample, if I were using a longer lens, let's say a 100mm lens on an APS-C Camera - I would have been shooting at about 30ft, thus traversing nearly three table widths and the guests located at them.
Moreover, to address a rotational movement of the Subject's Head of 45° , to keep track of the expressions and internal communication in the shot - at SD = 10ft, I only need to move about 4ft - which is a small stretch. When shooting at 30ft I need to move 12ft to keep the same aspect as the Subject moves her head 45°
Also if using Flash – the Flash has all that extra travel too – and that is only for an Half Shot.
If you get to Full Length Candid work – you can easily be at 50ft with a longer lens on an APS-C camera – but here I was at only about 12ft, holding the camera in Portrait Orientation and I could move the short distance to avoid the intruders coming camera right:



I await some answers, thanks,


WW

[GlenM]

Even more to think about!
The wedding will not be a church ceremony. It will be held in a stately home, so I would expect the lighting to be brighter than the average church interior.
I think I will mainly leave the ceremony to the pro but get most of my shots before/after and at the evening reception.

So, the day shots will mainly be outside (if the weather is OK), but the evening shots will be in a dark room.

I'll start another post with the usual 'what lens' question which I am sure everyone is fed up with! My aim will be to get a lens which suits my general requirements, but with luck it will also be good for the wedding.

[William W]

In that new thread also remember to mention what camera you are using.

WW

[Colin Southern]

My niece is getting married later in the year. She has booked a photographer for the event.

But, she has asked me if I can take my camera and do some candid shots to show the flavour of the day (and evening reception).

Strange as it may sound, that decision may be down to the contracted photographer, not your niece, as any reputable professional photographer probably has this situation catered for in their contract.

At a minimum, I'd suggest either reading through that contract, or as a courtesy, checking with the pro.

[Thefirewitch]

I did exactly this last year.

I was asked to "bring my camera to the wedding [my girlfriend's sister] and take some shots".
The 'pro' photographer on the day was not exactly a 'pro' but a friend of theirs who liked to think of himself as a 'pro', so they *had to* have him doing the photos. I'll leave that one there for etiquette reasons...

Anyway I took my camera, and rather nervously the 'pro' photographer approached me beforehand and asked if I was there for the wedding. My immediate thought then was what else would I be there for you muppet?! I just replied yes, I was asked to bring my camera. He had a Sony Alpha A200, no battery pack, no flashgun, Tamron 18-200 lens.
I had exactly the same camera, flashgun, battery pack, Sigma 18-200 lens (I think that was the lens, if memory serves...)

Anyway, I kept out of his way, stood back, let him do his 'job'.
He had to leave straight after the wedding ceremony and photos in the courtyard (not church).
I then carried on doing the photos for the rest of the day and evening reception.

I took my photos, processed, photoshopped, enhanced them. I printed them out, gave them 120 shots in 2 albums as a weddiing present, did keyrings, little gifts etc for them.

In the end what happened, because the 'pro' was a friend, he did it on the cheap, just took his photos from camera and gave them to the bride and groom on a CD. He didn't do anything with them, left all the background crap on, ugly road signs, looked a bit of a mess IMO.

My photos "were a damn site better than <the pro's>" quote the bride.

Here are a few of the shots I took that day:
http://www.zigsphotography.co.uk/pho...ait/index.html
As you can see, the subjects are looking at the 'pro', not me. But sometimes these made better shots. (again, quote the bride)

Consequently, this upset the 'pro', made him look stupid (I assumed he would be processing and presenting his photos, not just shoving them through their door on a CD...).
I never received a single word of thanks and they have not spoken to me since. (That is the reason I've uploaded that last photo in that gallery on my website...!)

My advice having been there would be... Act daft, play down your photography skills, let the pro on the day think you bought the DSLR the day before and have just switched it on, and you're just there as the doting uncle taking some snaps for the family album.

As for checking with the pro first, I reckon his answer will be pretty obvious, a resounding NO!
If you want to know anything else about this situation feel free to ask!

Put a band, guitars and instruments in front of me and I'll run rings round many people. Put a wedding party in front of me and I'm clueless, no idea where to start! I have the utmost respect for wedding photographers, that really is a specialised thing, you only get one chance to get it right!

[Colin Southern]

As for checking with the pro first, I reckon his answer will be pretty obvious, a resounding NO!

Could well be ... the problem is though - if "no other photographers" is written into his contract, and another photographer turns up and starts shooting, then the B&G are in breach of contract, and that can have some serious legal implications eg

- The photographer may argue that the other photographer confused the guests to the point where they didn't know which photographer they should be looking at, and as a result the official photographer's reputation was tarnished because he wasn't able to get the expected number of quality shots due to this - or due to the fact that the un-official photographer caused delays.

- The photographer may argue loss of income if the guests choose to receive photos from the un-official photographer (that were taken after the official photographer posed and setup the group).

- The official photographer may even argue that the photos taken by the un-official photographer used his intellectual property (if he poses the group / selects the location / controls the light etc).

- The official photographer may even refuse to shoot.

Personally, I'm about as easy-going as it's possible to be with regards to these kinds of things ... but others aren't necessarily as easy-going. Some will say nothing - some will say something - some will totally spit the dummy.

Personally, I think it's just a courtesy thing.

Photographers are like a box of chocolates ... you never know what you're going to get

[Shadowman]

Could well be ... the problem is though - if "no other photographers" is written into his contract, and another photographer turns up and starts shooting, then the B&G are in breach of contract, and that can have some serious legal implications eg

- The photographer may argue that the other photographer confused the guests to the point where they didn't know which photographer they should be looking at, and as a result the official photographer's reputation was tarnished because he wasn't able to get the expected number of quality shots due to this - or due to the fact that the un-official photographer caused delays.

- The photographer may argue loss of income if the guests choose to receive photos from the un-official photographer (that were taken after the official photographer posed and setup the group).

- The official photographer may even argue that the photos taken by the un-official photographer used his intellectual property (if he poses the group / selects the location / controls the light etc).

- The official photographer may even refuse to shoot.

Personally, I'm about as easy-going as it's possible to be with regards to these kinds of things ... but others aren't necessarily as easy-going. Some will say nothing - some will say something - some will totally spit the dummy.

Personally, I think it's just a courtesy thing.

Photographers are like a box of chocolates ... you never know what you're going to get

Good points, also does the guest photographer have the same model release rights as the official photographer. If the guest photographer is merely going to provide those photos to the bride as a gift then it probably won't be an issue. If the guest photographer uses those photos for their own personal use then the question is was this a public venue and have the guests given up all rights to the use of their image.

[Colin Southern]

and this might happen ...